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Re: [XP] [Admin] Survey Questionaires

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  • George Dinwiddie
    ... I generally ignore them, but when I don t, I typically find the questions are impossible to truthfully answer. So many surveys are so poorly worded. -
    Message 1 of 15 , May 4, 2008
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      jhrothjr wrote:
      > Another consideration is whether people actually look at these things
      > and do anything about them.

      I generally ignore them, but when I don't, I typically find the
      questions are impossible to truthfully answer. So many surveys are so
      poorly worded.

      - George

      --
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Daniel Pupek
      I would suggest that this is the worst kind of research and should be shied away from. Any research derived from an anonymous sampling of participants who you
      Message 2 of 15 , May 5, 2008
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        I would suggest that this is the worst kind of research and should be shied
        away from. Any research derived from an anonymous sampling of participants
        who you know nothing about can only be labeled as anecdotal. Anecdotal
        information is only useful when viewed in it's full and original context
        (i.e. actual discussions). When you read the full discussions then the
        information can help you derive your own conclusions rather than suggest a
        distilled conclusion based on a flawed sampling.

        Dan

        On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:01 PM, jhrothjr <JohnRoth1@...> wrote:

        > It seems like we get a new academic survey request every week or so.
        > While I like the impression that it means we're getting a lot more
        > notice, and I've always let them through without taking the poster off
        > moderation, I'm beginning to wonder if this is the best policy.
        >
        > One consideration is historical: the very first spam mailing, long
        > preceding the modern Internet, was an academic survey request that
        > exploited this fantastic new medium called e-mail.
        >
        > Another consideration is whether people actually look at these things
        > and do anything about them.
        >
        > So what's the group's opinion?
        >
        > John Roth
        > Associate Moderator
        >
        >
        >



        --


        Checkout my blog @ http://blog.agilejedi.com
        Checkout my homepage @ http://www.agilejedi.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Daniel Pupek
        I really want to expand on this more. A better way to research the discussions here on the list might be in the form of a research paper that presents several
        Message 3 of 15 , May 5, 2008
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          I really want to expand on this more. A better way to research the
          discussions here on the list might be in the form of a research paper
          that presents several related discussions and explores the various view
          points and how the discussion evolves. The paper could be written in an
          anthropologic form, presenting the view points, outlining the evolution of
          the discussions, but making few actual conclusions.

          This sort of research would be very useful to me(I may try doing this on my
          blog).

          Dan

          On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Pupek <dan@...> wrote:

          > I would suggest that this is the worst kind of research and should be shied
          > away from. Any research derived from an anonymous sampling of participants
          > who you know nothing about can only be labeled as anecdotal. Anecdotal
          > information is only useful when viewed in it's full and original context
          > (i.e. actual discussions). When you read the full discussions then the
          > information can help you derive your own conclusions rather than suggest a
          > distilled conclusion based on a flawed sampling.
          >
          > Dan
          >
          > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:01 PM, jhrothjr <JohnRoth1@...> wrote:
          >
          >> It seems like we get a new academic survey request every week or so.
          >> While I like the impression that it means we're getting a lot more
          >> notice, and I've always let them through without taking the poster off
          >> moderation, I'm beginning to wonder if this is the best policy.
          >>
          >> One consideration is historical: the very first spam mailing, long
          >> preceding the modern Internet, was an academic survey request that
          >> exploited this fantastic new medium called e-mail.
          >>
          >> Another consideration is whether people actually look at these things
          >> and do anything about them.
          >>
          >> So what's the group's opinion?
          >>
          >> John Roth
          >> Associate Moderator
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          > Checkout my blog @ http://blog.agilejedi.com
          > Checkout my homepage @ http://www.agilejedi.com




          --


          Checkout my blog @ http://blog.agilejedi.com
          Checkout my homepage @ http://www.agilejedi.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steven Gordon
          ... The sad truth is that many students are required to show a competency in statistical analysis in their thesis work. Running an experiment in software
          Message 4 of 15 , May 5, 2008
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            On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Daniel Pupek <dan@...> wrote:
            >
            > I would suggest that this is the worst kind of research and should be shied
            > away from. Any research derived from an anonymous sampling of participants
            > who you know nothing about can only be labeled as anecdotal. Anecdotal
            > information is only useful when viewed in it's full and original context
            > (i.e. actual discussions). When you read the full discussions then the
            > information can help you derive your own conclusions rather than suggest a
            > distilled conclusion based on a flawed sampling.
            >

            The sad truth is that many students are required to show a competency
            in statistical analysis in their thesis work. Running an experiment
            in software development to generate data to analyze is difficult,
            requiring much organizational work including the recruitment of
            volunteers. Designing an experiment so that the data actually
            measures what it is purported to measure is even more challenging.
            And almost all the time, the results will end up being statistically
            insignificant.

            So, many students will just do a survey to demonstrate statistical
            competency. They would learn much more about what they are studying
            (as well as the limitations of software metrics) by attempting to do
            an experiment, even if the results end up not being statistically
            significant.

            Steve

            > Dan
          • Wilson, Michael
            I ve ignored these things wholesale but thought they might have been of use to someone. But Chris has an interesting point. In 20 years of high-volume list
            Message 5 of 15 , May 5, 2008
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              I've ignored these things wholesale but thought they might have been of
              use to someone. But Chris has an interesting point. In 20 years of
              high-volume list haunting, I'm not sure I've ever seen the output.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wheeler
              Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:12 PM
              To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [XP] [Admin] Survey Questionaires

              I generally ignore requests from grad students asking questions as I
              never,
              ever, have seen any reciprocation in the form of links to their final
              product nor do I see most grad students take an interest in actual group
              participation (ironically, this would be the greatest source of learning
              for
              most of them). Also, it's usually students from some unknown, unheard of
              place - that may not mean much to others, but if a reputable university
              was
              doing a study, I'd be more inclined to pay attention.

              Chris.

              On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 4:01 PM, jhrothjr <JohnRoth1@...> wrote:

              > It seems like we get a new academic survey request every week or so.
              > While I like the impression that it means we're getting a lot more
              > notice, and I've always let them through without taking the poster off
              > moderation, I'm beginning to wonder if this is the best policy.
              >
              > One consideration is historical: the very first spam mailing, long
              > preceding the modern Internet, was an academic survey request that
              > exploited this fantastic new medium called e-mail.
              >
              > Another consideration is whether people actually look at these things
              > and do anything about them.
              >
              > So what's the group's opinion?
              >
              > John Roth
              > Associate Moderator
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

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            • Steven Campbell
              My observation is that surveys are a *very* slow iterative technique which usually do not get past the first iteration. Ideally, they are an exploration of
              Message 6 of 15 , May 6, 2008
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                My observation is that surveys are a *very* slow iterative technique
                which usually do not get past the first iteration. Ideally, they are
                an exploration of the problem space, with the intention of finding
                areas in which greater study is needed. A second-iteration survey
                will build on the results of a first-iteration survey, and will thus
                have a more mature result.

                The survey's that I see in lists like this one seem to be primarily
                first-iteration. I'm not surprised that XP proponents (or Agile in
                general) would be annoyed by these, because we know that there are
                better communication mechanisms that will let the survey-author gain
                more insight. We have little patience for slow iterations. However,
                the author's need to balance that against their need to be scientific
                in their approach, so I have some sympathy - their options are
                limited.


                ~Steve

                On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Wilson, Michael <michael.wilson@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I've ignored these things wholesale but thought they might have been of
                > use to someone. But Chris has an interesting point. In 20 years of
                > high-volume list haunting, I'm not sure I've ever seen the output.
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wheeler
                > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:12 PM
                > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Subject: Re: [XP] [Admin] Survey Questionaires
                >
                > I generally ignore requests from grad students asking questions as I
                > never,
                > ever, have seen any reciprocation in the form of links to their final
                > product nor do I see most grad students take an interest in actual group
                > participation (ironically, this would be the greatest source of learning
                > for
                > most of them). Also, it's usually students from some unknown, unheard of
                > place - that may not mean much to others, but if a reputable university
                > was
                > doing a study, I'd be more inclined to pay attention.
                >
                > Chris.
                >
                > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 4:01 PM, jhrothjr <JohnRoth1@...> wrote:
                >
                > > It seems like we get a new academic survey request every week or so.
                > > While I like the impression that it means we're getting a lot more
                > > notice, and I've always let them through without taking the poster off
                > > moderation, I'm beginning to wonder if this is the best policy.
                > >
                > > One consideration is historical: the very first spam mailing, long
                > > preceding the modern Internet, was an academic survey request that
                > > exploited this fantastic new medium called e-mail.
                > >
                > > Another consideration is whether people actually look at these things
                > > and do anything about them.
                > >
                > > So what's the group's opinion?
                > >
                > > John Roth
                > > Associate Moderator
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                > >
                > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                > >
                > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                >
                > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > This message is for the named person's use only. This communication is for
                > informational purposes only and has been obtained from sources believed to
                > be reliable, but it is not necessarily complete and its accuracy cannot be
                > guaranteed. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase
                > or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any
                > transaction. Moreover, this material should not be construed to contain any
                > recommendation regarding, or opinion concerning, any security. It may
                > contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
                > confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
                > you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
                > copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
                > sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
                > print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
                > recipient. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
                > sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is
                > authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
                >
                > Securities products and services provided to Canadian investors are offered
                > by ITG Canada Corp. (member CIPF and IDA), an affiliate of Investment
                > Technology Group, Inc.
                >
                > ITG Inc. and/or its affiliates reserves the right to monitor and archive
                > all electronic communications through its network.
                >
                > ITG Inc. Member NASD, SIPC
                > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
                >



                --
                Steve Campbell
                http://blog.perfectapi.com/
              • Victor
                I just thought about a possible justification for a survey. In this case not an academic one. Many of us are contractors, and therefore there is an issue of
                Message 7 of 15 , May 6, 2008
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                  I just thought about a possible justification for a survey. In this case not an academic one.

                  Many of us are contractors, and therefore there is an issue of health and life insurance. So, there is a question of how many of us would be interested in getting organized some way for the purpose of becoming a group for the insurance companies. Maybe questions of this type should be allowed. In this case probably a new keyword would be useful. How about QUESTION, POLL, or CANVASS?

                  Answers to both questions are welcome.

                  Víctor

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Phlip
                  ... I am paperwork-challenged enough as it is. You are asking for the heartbreaking decision whether to play those murderers games, or to unionize the system
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 6, 2008
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                    Victor wrote:

                    > I just thought about a possible justification for a survey. In this case not an academic one.
                    >
                    > Many of us are contractors, and therefore there is an issue of health and life insurance. So, there is a question of how many of us would be interested in getting organized some way for the purpose of becoming a group for the insurance companies. Maybe questions of this type should be allowed. In this case probably a new keyword would be useful. How about QUESTION, POLL, or CANVASS?

                    I am paperwork-challenged enough as it is. You are asking for the
                    heartbreaking decision whether to play those murderers' games, or
                    to unionize the system against them.

                    Engineers fix the root problem!

                    --
                    Phlip
                  • Max Guernsey, III
                    Your point was too subtle for the likes of myself to deduce. Max Guernsey, III Managing Member, Hexagon Software http://www.hexsw.com
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 6, 2008
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                      Your point was too subtle for the likes of myself to deduce.



                      Max Guernsey, III

                      Managing Member, Hexagon Software

                      <http://www.hexsw.com/> http://www.hexsw.com

                      <http://www.dataconstructor.com/> http://www.dataconstructor.com



                      From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phlip
                      Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 7:34 PM
                      To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [XP] Re: Another angle - was Re: [Admin] Survey Questionaires



                      Victor wrote:

                      > I just thought about a possible justification for a survey. In this case
                      not an academic one.
                      >
                      > Many of us are contractors, and therefore there is an issue of health and
                      life insurance. So, there is a question of how many of us would be
                      interested in getting organized some way for the purpose of becoming a group
                      for the insurance companies. Maybe questions of this type should be allowed.
                      In this case probably a new keyword would be useful. How about QUESTION,
                      POLL, or CANVASS?

                      I am paperwork-challenged enough as it is. You are asking for the
                      heartbreaking decision whether to play those murderers' games, or
                      to unionize the system against them.

                      Engineers fix the root problem!

                      --
                      Phlip





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Victor
                      Hi Philip, ... So, how would you fix it? Víctor ... From: Phlip To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:33 PM Subject: [XP] Re:
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 6, 2008
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                        Hi Philip,

                        > Engineers fix the root problem!

                        So, how would you fix it?

                        Víctor

                        ====================================

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Phlip
                        To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:33 PM
                        Subject: [XP] Re: Another angle - was Re: [Admin] Survey Questionaires


                        Victor wrote:

                        > I just thought about a possible justification for a survey. In this case not an academic one.
                        >
                        > Many of us are contractors, and therefore there is an issue of health and life insurance. So, there is a question of how many of us would be interested in getting organized some way for the purpose of becoming a group for the insurance companies. Maybe questions of this type should be allowed. In this case probably a new keyword would be useful. How about QUESTION, POLL, or CANVASS?

                        I am paperwork-challenged enough as it is. You are asking for the
                        heartbreaking decision whether to play those murderers' games, or
                        to unionize the system against them.

                        Engineers fix the root problem!

                        --
                        Phlip





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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