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Re: [XP] XP and Scrum

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  • Steven Gordon
    ... Please, do not be offended. Technically, I was responding to Max s statement. I might not be tracking your specific postings as closely as I should, but I
    Message 1 of 138 , May 2 6:24 PM
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      On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Gary Brown <glbrown@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Steven Gordon" <sgordonphd@...>
      > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      >
      > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:52 PM
      > Subject: Re: [XP] XP and Scrum
      >
      > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Gary Brown <glbrown@...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> ----- Original Message -----
      > >> From: "Steven Gordon" <sgordonphd@...>
      > >> To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      > >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 5:44 PM
      > >> Subject: Re: [XP] XP and Scrum
      > >>
      > >> > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Max Guernsey, III <max@...>
      > >> wrote:
      > >> >>
      >
      > I have never done that, and anyone who is paying the slightest bit of
      > attention knows that. Over and over, I have explained what we do, how I
      > think we are coming up short and asking how to improve. Over and over, the
      > what and how get deleted and I get pummled for imposing or forcing XP. I
      > have been a member of this group since 03/2000. Don't check the membership
      > list, because I have used different email addresses, but I have been here.
      > Ron can verify.

      Please, do not be offended. Technically, I was responding to Max's statement.

      I might not be tracking your specific postings as closely as I should,
      but I am not the only one getting mixed signals.

      Are others in your organization on this list (or actively involved
      with XP in any other way besides their job)? If not, that may be an
      indication that they are doing XP because it is required and not
      because they have come to believe it is the best way to develop
      software. If this is the case, then that is a possible cause for your
      organization reaching a plateau.

      This is part of the reason why I believe in starting with Scrum and
      then actively facilitating the team to discover for themselves how the
      XP practices makes it possible for them to achieve their own
      objectives. It becomes their idea instead of the coaches' or
      managers'.

      Alternatively, if the development-side is enthusiastic about XP and
      the customer-side and/or other stakeholders are not, then maybe Scrum
      does have something to offer the rest of your organization.

      Steve

      >
      > GB.
      >
    • Manuel Klimek
      Chris, On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Chris Wheeler ... 1. if you have a measurable dependent variable, which we haven t. 2. if you have enough consistent
      Message 138 of 138 , May 14 10:06 AM
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        Chris,

        On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Chris Wheeler
        <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
        > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Manuel Klimek <klimek@...> wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> From what I know about maths, combining metrics about which we have no
        >> idea how strongly they are correlated with the dependent variable /and
        >> each other/ means that we can't say anything about it. The 'errors'
        >> might cancel out, they might multiply, and I think the basic problem
        >> is to find the correlation of the independent variables. If we knew
        >> these, we could create a metric that explains the dependent variable
        >> in a better way.
        >>
        >> I don't think regression analysis applies here because of the
        >> interdependence of the errors of the independent variables.
        >
        > Ok. Like I said, read up on it. There are ways to discern multicollinearity
        > amongst independent variables and ways to deal with it. Regression analysis
        > is helpful in determining how much variation in your dependent variable is
        > accounted for by your independent variables.

        1. if you have a measurable dependent variable, which we haven't.
        2. if you have enough consistent data that you can do sound
        statistical analysis, which is moot if you don't have (1), but which
        is hard to come by, even if you have (1). With consistent I mean that
        the environment does not change in a way that the metrics change
        without the target metric changing. Which would lead to all that
        repeatability that CMMI seems to be about, which seems to lead to
        making the same error over and over again, just to be able to prove
        that you made it.
        3. I said interdependence of the errors, which I think is something
        else than covariance of the independent variables, whilst related to
        it and probably computable if you could find out the covariances. But
        I confess that I am not on firm ground here.

        > Or, don't read up on it. Whatever suits you.

        I already read up on it since you hinted me to do so, and I knew about
        it before, having had some graduate math during CS and finance
        studies. Just thought I'd mention it :-)

        Cheers,
        /Manuel

        --
        http://klimek.box4.net
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