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Re: [XP] How to measure agile projects reliability

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  • Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun
    Thank you Mr. John Roth and D. André Dhondt. I have already searched a number of research databases but found a little work on Certification Reliability
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2 7:58 AM
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      Thank you Mr. John Roth and D. André Dhondt. I have already searched a number of research databases but found a little work on Certification Reliability Estimation/Prediction (ofcourse we can say this formal) of agile development.
      I have a little idea what people are doing in the real world regarding this issue and waiting for other peoples here.

      /Mamun


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: John Roth <JohnRoth1@...>
      To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 3:34:23 PM
      Subject: Re: [XP] How to measure agile projects reliability


      To expand on this a bit: XP doesn't deal with special
      needs. If you need formal reliability measures you need
      to add practices to make it happen. That's a basic
      part of XP: adapting the process to the needs of the
      specific project.

      There are people on this list (and elsewhere) who do
      need formal verification of reliability; many of them
      will be happy to answer your questions of what they
      did.

      John Roth

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "D. André Dhondt" <d.andre.dhondt@ gmail.com>
      To: <extremeprogramming@ yahoogroups. com>
      Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 7:45 AM
      Subject: Re: [XP] How to measure agile projects reliability

      I'm not familiar with Goel or Yamada or classical Operational- Profile.

      I can't speak for Agility or XP in general, but in my experience I've found
      there are several lightweight ways to measure reliability- -before we deploy
      our applications- -with continuous integration, automated acceptance tests,
      and the regular feedback from our customers as we deploy often. After
      deployment, in my understanding of XP, there is no formal measure of
      application reliablity, because we expect the software to work as it was
      designed and tested to work--and we get regular feedback on this expectation
      from the Acceptance Tests, and if they fail, we fix them ASAP. I woudn't
      measure reliability directly unless it was causing problems or it was a
      concern of the customer. On the other hand, I'd never run a production
      process without some server monitoring / alerts configured-- but that is so
      easy and inexpensive to configure I don't think it's necessarily the same
      thing you're asking about. What is reliability? Does it include
      high-availability concepts like clustering, disaster recovery, etc?
      Configuring this level of availability would come out of story cards, I
      think.

      On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Md. Abdullah-Al- Mamun <mamun222@yahoo. com>
      wrote:

      > Hello,
      >
      > Can you please give me some idea about the current practice of
      > Reliability Measurement in agile/eXtreme development.
      >
      > i have listed some possible ways:
      >
      > 1. Test Coverage (i.e higher percentage = higher reliability)
      > 2. Applying Software Reliability Growth Models (like Goel, Yamada etc)
      > 3. Classical Operational- Profile/User- story
      >
      > Eagerly waiting for your valuable replies.
      >
      > Thank You.
      >
      > /Mamun
      > Student, MSc in Soft Eng
      > BTH,Sweden
      >
      >
      >

      --
      D. André Dhondt
      mobile: 267-283-8270
      home: 267-286-6875

      If you're a software developer in the area, join Agile Philly (
      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/agilephill y/)!

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • Steven Gordon
      I think we may still be confused about what you are looking for. Are you interested in the reliability of the software being produced or the reliability of the
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2 10:46 AM
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        I think we may still be confused about what you are looking for.

        Are you interested in the reliability of the software being produced
        or the reliability of the project to produce the desired software?

        If you are interested in reliability of the software, are you
        interested in uptime or the chance of the system presenting incorrect
        information or the chance of the system being hacked or what?

        How do non-agile projects do what you are asking about? Do those
        approaches really work in practice or just provide evidence that the
        project team took reasonable measures to address reliability problems?


        On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun
        <mamun222@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Thank you Mr. John Roth and D. André Dhondt. I have already searched a
        > number of research databases but found a little work on Certification
        > Reliability Estimation/Prediction (ofcourse we can say this formal) of agile
        > development.
        > I have a little idea what people are doing in the real world regarding this
        > issue and waiting for other peoples here.
        >
        > /Mamun
        >
      • Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun
        I am talking about the developed software. In case of non-agile processes there exists good tools in the market those deal with around a dozen of Software
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2 11:37 AM
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          I am talking about the developed software. In case of non-agile processes there exists good tools in the market those deal with around a dozen of Software Reliability Growth Model (based on the failure data from the testing phase). These model can predict the current reliability level and probable future behavior
          after product release. (Its true, these certification reliability is no practiced by mass organizations but good companies do this)
          In agile the testing phase is not linear like non-agile, there is my problem to apply traditional SRGM. So i like to know what agile/eXtreme ppl are doing?

          /Mamun


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...>
          To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 6:46:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [XP] How to measure agile projects reliability


          I think we may still be confused about what you are looking for.

          Are you interested in the reliability of the software being produced
          or the reliability of the project to produce the desired software?

          If you are interested in reliability of the software, are you
          interested in uptime or the chance of the system presenting incorrect
          information or the chance of the system being hacked or what?

          How do non-agile projects do what you are asking about? Do those
          approaches really work in practice or just provide evidence that the
          project team took reasonable measures to address reliability problems?

          On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Md. Abdullah-Al- Mamun
          <mamun222@yahoo. com> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Thank you Mr. John Roth and D. André Dhondt. I have already searched a
          > number of research databases but found a little work on Certification
          > Reliability Estimation/Predicti on (ofcourse we can say this formal) of agile
          > development.
          > I have a little idea what people are doing in the real world regarding this
          > issue and waiting for other peoples here.
          >
          > /Mamun
          >



          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Be a better friend, newshound, and
          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mike Vizdos
          How about working software ? Thank you, Mike On May 2, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 9 , May 2 11:52 AM
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            How about "working software"?

            Thank you,

            Mike



            On May 2, 2008, at 7:01 AM, "Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun"
            <mamun222@...> wrote:

            > Hello,
            >
            > Can you please give me some idea about the current practice of
            > Reliability Measurement in agile/eXtreme development.
            >
            > i have listed some possible ways:
            >
            > 1. Test Coverage (i.e higher percentage = higher reliability)
            > 2. Applying Software Reliability Growth Models (like Goel, Yamada etc)
            > 3. Classical Operational-Profile/User-story
            >
            > Eagerly waiting for your valuable replies.
            >
            > Thank You.
            >
            > /Mamun
            > Student, MSc in Soft Eng
            > BTH,Sweden
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Steven Gordon
            On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun ... What bad things would happen if you applied the traditional SRGM to the working software delivered
            Message 5 of 9 , May 2 11:53 AM
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              On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun
              <mamun222@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I am talking about the developed software. In case of non-agile processes
              > there exists good tools in the market those deal with around a dozen of
              > Software Reliability Growth Model (based on the failure data from the
              > testing phase). These model can predict the current reliability level and
              > probable future behavior
              > after product release. (Its true, these certification reliability is no
              > practiced by mass organizations but good companies do this)
              > In agile the testing phase is not linear like non-agile, there is my
              > problem to apply traditional SRGM. So i like to know what agile/eXtreme ppl
              > are doing?

              What bad things would happen if you applied the traditional SRGM to
              the working software delivered after each iteration?

              I would think you would just get more data points, so I am puzzled by
              why this would be bad? If the "growth pattern" is different for
              iterative projects, could you just take this difference into account?

              Perhaps, it would be too much work to do this every 2 weeks? Could
              you find ways to automate the majority of the work so that most of the
              additional work each iteration would just be doing something for only
              the new pieces of functionality? Could you integrate this into
              something like FitNesse so that developers, customers, management and
              other stakeholders can monitor the progress?


              >
              > /Mamun
              >
              >
            • Steven Campbell
              On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun ... I ve never heard of SRGMs. It is not a mainstream technique - there isn t even a wikipedia article
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2 12:23 PM
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                On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Md. Abdullah-Al-Mamun
                <mamun222@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am talking about the developed software. In case of non-agile processes
                > there exists good tools in the market those deal with around a dozen of
                > Software Reliability Growth Model (based on the failure data from the
                > testing phase). These model can predict the current reliability level and
                > probable future behavior
                > after product release. (Its true, these certification reliability is no
                > practiced by mass organizations but good companies do this)
                > In agile the testing phase is not linear like non-agile, there is my
                > problem to apply traditional SRGM. So i like to know what agile/eXtreme ppl
                > are doing?
                >

                I've never heard of SRGMs. It is not a mainstream technique - there
                isn't even a wikipedia article on it, only a smattering of academic
                articles. The best summary I could find was
                http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/6017897-Rc1ams/

                From what I understand, these models leverage the traditional end of
                development "QA" step to get baseline measurements, from which a
                longer-term model can be extrapolated.

                It would not be applied in an Agile project unless the client attached
                specific *value* to the SRGM. In that case, we could certainly take
                measurements at whatever points the models preferred.

                That said, you would have to be careful before applying a standard
                model. They were developed using data from projects that "tested
                quality in". Agile techniques focus on "building the quality in", and
                so may exhibit different characteristics.

                --
                Steve Campbell
                http://blog.perfectapi.com/
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