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Re: XP and Scrum

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  • Andrew Walker
    Dan, interesting point, I am getting old and crusty as you put it, and I picked up on XP a couple of years back. To me, its merely a state of mind, you re
    Message 1 of 138 , Apr 29, 2008
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      Dan, interesting point, I am getting old and crusty as you put it, and
      I picked up on XP a couple of years back. To me, its merely a state of
      mind, you're either open to ideas you have not come across before, or
      you're not. It's an unfortunate consequence for many, that their egos
      grow proportionately with their experience.

      Guys straight out of college are a great catch, but they tend not to
      speak up, and may not want to challenge anything much until they feel
      more confident.

      Just an alternative viewpoint.

      Andrew

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Pupek" <dan@...> wrote:
      >
      > Where I have had the best luck with XP is with the guys and gals coming
      > straight out of college. The old crusty ones tend to fight it.
      >
      > Scrum seems to take care of this by only focusing on the management
      end of
      > things. Having fought these guys, I can understand some of the
      motivation
      > for this approach.
      >
      > Thoughts?
      >
      > Dan
      >
      > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Mike Hill <mike@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      > > Why, no, as a matter of fact, you're not.
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > > Hill
      > > <mike@... <mike%40industriallogic.com>>
      > > Learn XP! <http://www.industriallogic.com/elearning>
      > >
      > >
      > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Daniel Pupek
      <dan@...<dan%40agilejedi.com>>
      > > wrote:
      > >
      > > > Ok....so I'm not the only one reading this as mostly a matter of
      > > > marketing
      > > > (and practices).
      > > >
      > > > Dan
      > > >
      > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Ron Jeffries <
      > > > ronjeffries@... <ronjeffries%40xprogramming.com><ronjeffries%
      > > 40xprogramming.com>>
      > > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Hello, Daniel. On Sunday, April 27, 2008, at 3:02:23 PM, you
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > Can someone give me some of the major differences between
      Scrum and
      > > > XP?
      > > > > > I used to think I understood Scrum but maybe I don't. I used to
      > > > consider
      > > > > it
      > > > > > XP-Light or XP with 30 day iterations and none of the
      practices. Why
      > > > > would
      > > > > > someone recommend one over the other?
      > > > >
      > > > > Scrum has no technical practices built in, and Jeff Sutherland,
      > > > > inventor of Scrum, says publicly that every high-performance Scrum
      > > > > team he has ever seen uses practices much like XP to do it.
      > > > >
      > > > > Scrum's planning ritual is a bit different from XP but in no
      > > > > significant way, so one can plug into the other.
      > > > >
      > > > > Scrum is touted as a "management technique", so it is often an
      > > > > easier sell.
      > > > >
      > > > > Ron Jeffries
      > > > > www.XProgramming.com
      > > > > We know less about the project today than at any time in the
      future.
      > > > > -- Chet Hendrickson
      > > > > You mean today is the dumbest day of the rest of my life?
      > > > > -- Ron Jeffries
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > >
      > > > Checkout my blog @ http://blog.agilejedi.com
      > > > Checkout my homepage @ http://www.agilejedi.com
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      >
      > Checkout my blog @ http://blog.agilejedi.com
      > Checkout my homepage @ http://www.agilejedi.com
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Manuel Klimek
      Chris, On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Chris Wheeler ... 1. if you have a measurable dependent variable, which we haven t. 2. if you have enough consistent
      Message 138 of 138 , May 14, 2008
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        Chris,

        On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Chris Wheeler
        <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
        > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Manuel Klimek <klimek@...> wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> From what I know about maths, combining metrics about which we have no
        >> idea how strongly they are correlated with the dependent variable /and
        >> each other/ means that we can't say anything about it. The 'errors'
        >> might cancel out, they might multiply, and I think the basic problem
        >> is to find the correlation of the independent variables. If we knew
        >> these, we could create a metric that explains the dependent variable
        >> in a better way.
        >>
        >> I don't think regression analysis applies here because of the
        >> interdependence of the errors of the independent variables.
        >
        > Ok. Like I said, read up on it. There are ways to discern multicollinearity
        > amongst independent variables and ways to deal with it. Regression analysis
        > is helpful in determining how much variation in your dependent variable is
        > accounted for by your independent variables.

        1. if you have a measurable dependent variable, which we haven't.
        2. if you have enough consistent data that you can do sound
        statistical analysis, which is moot if you don't have (1), but which
        is hard to come by, even if you have (1). With consistent I mean that
        the environment does not change in a way that the metrics change
        without the target metric changing. Which would lead to all that
        repeatability that CMMI seems to be about, which seems to lead to
        making the same error over and over again, just to be able to prove
        that you made it.
        3. I said interdependence of the errors, which I think is something
        else than covariance of the independent variables, whilst related to
        it and probably computable if you could find out the covariances. But
        I confess that I am not on firm ground here.

        > Or, don't read up on it. Whatever suits you.

        I already read up on it since you hinted me to do so, and I knew about
        it before, having had some graduate math during CS and finance
        studies. Just thought I'd mention it :-)

        Cheers,
        /Manuel

        --
        http://klimek.box4.net
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