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Re: [XP] Success rates of Agile Transitions

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  • Chris Wheeler
    On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Ron Jeffries ... No, Ron, I think it s both. And I m going to talk about the XP/Agile
    Message 1 of 256 , Mar 21, 2008
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      On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

      > I'd like not to hear many more suggestions that people here lack
      > guts. I think we lack the kind of knowledge you two want us to
      > present.

      No, Ron, I think it's both. And I'm going to talk about the XP/Agile
      community in general here - if any think that this generalization doesn't
      apply to them, then please exclude yourself from this generalization.
      Lately, there has been an enlightenment of sorts around metrics in the agile
      community. For years, the concept of using metrics to communicate to
      executives (or to anyone) was resisted by the Agile community. Now, there is
      a dearth of good data to use to show how to 'measure' or communicate the
      effectiveness of agile methodologies. Perhaps in a couple of years we'll be
      further ahead. It has been resistance to using metrics that has led to this
      situation. I don't think it was a complete lack of knowledge - I think it's
      been a fear of metrics and data that, in general, has lead to what we have
      today - a process mostly supported by anecdote and stories.

      I feel the same about the resistance that is offered up in this thread. I
      don't think we lack the knowledge so much as we are afraid that when we look
      at the numbers they won't paint the same great story that, well, stories
      show. I also think that, in general, the XP community is made up of a lot of
      great programmers but few people who have the broad and deep business
      experience it takes to understand why this information is necessary.

      What would happen if we faced this situation head on? What if we did see
      that the data didn't mesh with our world view? I think if that happened, I'd
      try to find a way to improve XP/Agile, or explain the numbers.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Niraj Khanna
      Hi Unmesh, Sorry for not responding in over 1 month. We were away on vacation. ... I think what you re describing maybe a symptom or practice of why some
      Message 256 of 256 , May 8, 2008
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        Hi Unmesh,

        Sorry for not responding in over 1 month. We were away on vacation.
        > So to measure success or failure of "Agile" transition is to measure
        > if people are thinking for themselves, rather than blindly following
        > agile coach's advice and running behind agile buzzword. How can we
        > measure that?

        I think what you're describing maybe a symptom or practice of why some
        agile transitions "succeed" over others that "fail". I'm just
        interested in measuring whether it succeeds or fails. A secondary and
        more useful study would be "why do agile transitions succeed/fail".
        Finally, to be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see "Blindly
        following agile manual" in either the "success" or "failure" camp. I
        think Ron has discussed practicing all the XP practices before
        deciding which ones to drop, but I can also see how practicing and
        applying practices without an understanding of expected benefits
        coulod lead to adoption failure.

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