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Re: [XP] Re: Kate Oneal on Productivity

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, John. On Saturday, March 1, 2008, at 12:25:01 PM, you ... What if we estimated technical debt via survey? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Do I
    Message 1 of 192 , Mar 1, 2008
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      Hello, John. On Saturday, March 1, 2008, at 12:25:01 PM, you
      wrote:

      > It's good, but remember the context of this discussion: the metric
      > proposed by Marty.

      > viz.: productivity = stories / (technical debt + defects)

      > If you can't even hope to accurately measure technical debt (and I
      > would add, other forms of debt such as psychological debt), not to
      > mention defects, then the value of such a metric is limited (maybe
      > zero).

      What if we estimated technical debt via survey?


      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself.
      (I am large, I contain multitudes.) --Walt Whitman
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... I freely grant that having someone come in and point to issues in the code is helpful. But I ve never seen a team where none of them knew they were
      Message 192 of 192 , Mar 10, 2008
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        Hello, Steven. On Friday, March 7, 2008, at 8:23:05 PM, you wrote:

        >> Why do you say this? Every team I've ever had anything to do with
        >> knew when it was producing crap.

        > Ron,

        > Before you had associated with them, or only after you had
        > enlightened them?

        I freely grant that having someone come in and point to issues in
        the code is helpful. But I've never seen a team where none of them
        knew they were producing junk. Of course, I only see teams who are
        at least somewhat aware that they need help.

        > I have encountered quite a few teams this century who were quite
        > openly proud of their cleverly engineered proprietary DAO, not
        > understanding that they had in reality wasted several person-months
        > creating something inferior to freely available frameworks like
        > Hibernate and whose maintenance was going to degrade their velocity
        > until they finally gave up their pride and replaced it with
        > (N)Hibernate (or the equivalent).

        > Seriously, you have not encountered this phenomenon?

        You describe a phenomenon illustrating my point, where a team
        realizes that their home-grown DAO is holding them back. Yes. It's
        an example of teams figuring out that they are producing / have
        produced crap.

        And my guess is that some of them knew long before, and quite
        possibly even said so. If a team is any good at all, at least some
        of them know.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        If you don't have the courage to say what you think,
        there isn't much use in thinking it, is there?
        --Thomas Jay Peckish II
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