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Re: [XP] Don't let them see our velocity?

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  • Matt
    ... Ron, you are 100% right. In your hypothetical situation with two teams working in parallel ceteris paribus the velocity numbers will show that one team is
    Message 1 of 342 , Dec 30, 2007
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      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
      <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello, Charlie. On Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 10:46:55 PM, you
      > wrote:
      >
      > >> Isn't the velocity of the one team ten, and the other twenty?
      >
      > > I don't know what the velocity of either team is. If each team
      > > estimated each of their stories as one point each, then yes.
      >
      > > What are the odds of that?
      >
      > Oh come on you guys. Same stories, all things equal except: one team
      > does ten, other does twenty. However we calculate velocity, one will
      > be twice the other, and the reason will be that they ARE twice as
      > productive.
      >
      > One reason people ask for velocity is that in appropriate
      > aggregates, it really does track productivity. Or so it seems to me.
      > If this is true ... then what?


      Ron, you are 100% right. In your hypothetical situation with two teams
      working in parallel ceteris paribus the velocity numbers will show that
      one team is twice as productive as the other. Unfortunately, ceteris
      paribus is a phenomenon that only works in economics (well... OK... not
      really there either!) The point is that from everything I have read and
      experienced, even if you have two teams working on the same features,
      same stories same everything, one will be measuring in apples and the
      other in oranges. Now unless I know that two apples == one orange...
      apples to oranges means nothing to me and I won't know who did twice as
      much work.

      Now if you are saying, the only thing that matters is *features*
      completed or *stories* completed... then what you are saying makes
      perfect sense. Because you can't hide that number. But don't most
      teams count their "velocity" as the total of their estimates? And these
      estimates are points, gummy bears or whatever other silly name we come
      up with? So to say that I can look at a velocity number and figure out
      the number of features completed doesn't make any sense to me.

      So I guess if someone wanted to know velocity and I reported my 'stories
      completed' number to them... that might be useful information. But if I
      report my velocity as "we got 42 gummy bears done last week" I would
      *hope* they would look at me like I had lost my mind... unless they were
      a developer on the team that helped make the estimates in the first
      place.

      Matt



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, Ilja. On Saturday, February 16, 2008, at 6:23:42 PM, you ... Well, it sounds like it would take a pretty narrow set of ideas on how to improve
      Message 342 of 342 , Feb 16, 2008
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        Hello, Ilja. On Saturday, February 16, 2008, at 6:23:42 PM, you
        wrote:

        > I expect this to increase our velocity in the middle run. And I'm all
        > for measuring it.

        > I doubt we would have even tried this event if we had focused on
        > improving velocity.

        > How does that sound to you?

        Well, it sounds like it would take a pretty narrow set of ideas on
        how to improve velocity. In a discussion on that, I would hope that
        ideas like learning, better tools, higher morale, and better
        communication would come up.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Anyone can make the simple complicated.
        Creativity is making the complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus
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