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Re: [XP] Re: New Article: Planning the Project

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  • George Dinwiddie
    ... Deciding what to record at the time also distorts our view of it. Keeping paper notes is not entirely unlike keeping in-memory notes. If you read Norm s
    Message 1 of 207 , Dec 4, 2007
      Simon Jones wrote:
      > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie
      > <lists@...> wrote:
      >> Simon Jones wrote:
      >>> --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie
      >>> <lists@> wrote:
      >>>> Simon Jones wrote:
      >>>>> Incidentally.. slightly off topic, I was chatting about this
      > with
      >>>>> Pete the other night and got onto the topic of retrospectives.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> I've never been a fan for the same reason. Interpreting the
      > past
      >>> with
      >>>>> hindsight.
      >>>> Hmmm, I wonder if there's a link between not liking
      > retrospectives
      >>> (and,
      >>>> seemingly, misinterpreting what they are) and this tendency not
      > to
      >>> learn
      >>>> from the past.
      >>> Nope, I don't think so.
      >>>
      >>> And as I went on to mention, I prefer the idea of a diary.
      >>> Information gathered without the benefit of hindsight is, I
      > think,
      >>> potentially of more value.
      >> And how does that data provide value without going back, looking at
      > it,
      >> and thinking about it?
      >
      > I didn't say one shouldn't go back and look at it. What I said
      > earlier in the thread is that its more valuable to review decisions
      > and thinking that occured /at the time/...
      >
      > The memory fades quickly and the act of remembering, even over a
      > short period distorts our view of it.

      Deciding what to record at the time also distorts our view of it.
      Keeping paper notes is not entirely unlike keeping in-memory notes. If
      you read Norm's book and Esther & Diana's book, you'll see that both
      start (after a safety exercise) with looking at collected data. This
      comes from both memory and artifacts.

      I guess I'm puzzled over your statement that you're "not a fan of
      retrospectives." What, to you, is a retrospective?

      - George

      --
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Jim Shore
      While these sorts of tools are useful for distributed teams and can encourage agile adoption, I think many do more harm than good. They enable bad behaviors
      Message 207 of 207 , Dec 7, 2007
        While these sorts of tools are useful for distributed teams and can
        encourage agile adoption, I think many do more harm than good. They
        enable bad behaviors (just as CI servers enable 4-hour build times).
        They often act as a substitute for face-to-face communication,
        working directly together, and big visible charts. Exactly the
        opposite of what successful agile teams need.

        I've yet to see one that I thought was helpful for a collocated
        team. I've seen plenty of teams that could have been collocated use
        tools like this to avoid rich collaboration, without even realizing it.

        I haven't looked at Mingle yet.

        Regards,
        Jim

        On Dec 6, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Four Hewes, Caspian Design wrote:

        > Well, what do folks think of the _idea_ of an "Application Lifecycle
        > Management (ALM) solution" such as ResultSpace?
        >
        > Can a many-user software tool support and encourage (maybe even
        > enforce) a group's agile methods? Is the tool overhead worth the
        > gains?
        >
        > Would "People over Tools" dictate that these sorts of automating
        > approaches are wrong-headed?
        >
        > Anyone have experience with ThoughtWorks' Mingle?
        >
        > I am looking at a couple upcoming web app dev projects that I'd like
        > to structure with at least some agile/XP practices. I'm wondering if
        > these sorts of tools may help support the adoption of agile/XP
        > discplines for newcomers. Could be just a crutch though...
        >
        > I'd appreciate insights, comments, etc.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        >
        >
        > At 2:34 PM -0500 12/6/07, Edmund Schweppe wrote:
        > Overall, my guess is that this ResultSpace thing isn't what XP folks
        > would consider "agile". It sounds more like a lot of branding being
        > applied to some Sapient internal apps that they want to try and make
        > some money on.
        >
        > 12/6/07, Four wrote:
        > http://www.ResultSpace.com/
        > Sapient's "Renowned Agile Development Methodology"... Anyone know
        > more about their expertise, claims and this new tool? Is it like
        > ThoughtWorks' Migle?
        > --
        > --
        > Four Hewes, Principal
        > Caspian Design | A Hybrid Consultancy
        > four@...
        >
        >
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        --
        James Shore, Titanium I.T. LLC
        co-author of The Art of Agile Development--now available!

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        email: jshore@...
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