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Re: [XP] Kicking Off Training on a Legacy System by Implementing Tests...

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  • captainkirk16384
    ... Sure, it could be looked at that way, except I view acceptance tests to be written by the user, implemented by the programmer. (We wont have that). But
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 9, 2007
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      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Gordon"
      <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wouldn't the same logic suggest they should be writing acceptance
      > tests (using Fit or whatever) in order to first learn the
      > application(s) that this API is supposed to be supporting?

      Sure, it could be looked at that way, except I view
      acceptance tests to be written by the user, implemented by the
      programmer. (We wont have that).

      But the underlying question has to deal with comments from 2
      books (Kent Beck being one of them), that wards off this
      approach...

      I feel these statements were made "In General" and am offering
      a SPECIFIC instance by way of comparison.

      Honestly, as I see it, unless someone shows me this is going
      to be a VERY BAD THING, this is the approach we will use.

      But out of ignorance, I hope to see some light shed on this.

      Kirk

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Gordon"
      <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wouldn't the same logic suggest they should be writing acceptance
      > tests (using Fit or whatever) in order to first learn the
      > application(s) that this API is supposed to be supporting?
      >
      > On 11/9/07, captainkirk16384 <yahoogroup@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Dear Gurus,
      > > For years, I have used Agile-type processes and skunk teams.
      > > We typically published weekly (or quicker) updates to production
      > > code. We focused on Code Reviews over testing... (Code reviews
      > > forced refactorings if Code Smells were found).
      > >
      > > While I cannot say we will do XP, I have always wanted the
      > > security of TDD for refactorings, stability and regression
      testing.
      > >
      > > We use outsourced developers, and this would help...
      > >
      > > Now, I have a new client who wants 2 developers outsourced to
      > > work on a legacy system, and eventually assist in the rewrite of
      > > the application (ASP to ASPX). The core business logic is in
      Oracle.
      > >
      > > Learning the business side interfaces are CRITICAL to the proper
      > > rewriting of this system.
      > >
      > > I am PROPOSING that the new developers spend their initial 4
      weeks
      > > training, BY Writing Test Cases for the API Level of the
      Database.
      > > (Yes, we have an xUnit for PL/SQL!!! Love it!)
      > >
      > > Admittedly, this is NOT TDD by definition. This is retrofitting
      > > the code with tests. The team lead will review these tests and
      > > provide feedback (Daily at first, and then weekly).
      > >
      > > The books, including Kent Becks, say "Do not add Tests to
      > > existing code, wait until you have to touch the code" with good
      > > explanations.
      > >
      > > I think I have a reasonable exception to this. I want these new
      > > people to learn the xUnit and testing process, as well as the API
      > > they are going to be using. I want the testing there so as the DB
      > > is changed, refactoring the code AND THE TESTS have a proper
      place
      > > and process in place.
      > >
      > > Finally, we will be doing TDD everywhere, and in other projects
      > > that we are just starting, so I believe their is even more value
      in
      > > making the statements:
      > > - TDD will be used!
      > > - Tests will be Reviewed (as will code)
      > > - This is SO IMPORTANT, that you will go BACK and add tests
      > > - Your proficiency at this is critical
      > >
      > > Despite it going against at least 2 books recommendations, I
      still
      > > believe it to be the correct approach. During the rewrite of the
      > > ASP side, they will leveraging the DB code extensively.
      > >
      > > Eventually, I would propose to re-implement the DB Code, but only
      > > after it is well understood by those doing it, and after the
      primary
      > > rewrite of the ASP Code which is critical for now.
      > >
      > > Thoughts?
      > > PS: I realize these tests are more API tests than TDD tests. But
      > > its about the environment...
      > >
      > >
      >
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