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Re: [XP] Agile Dojo

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  • Arnaud Bailly
    ... Thanks for sharing your experience. Sure, I forgot T ai Chi. And Capoeira too. I jumped in because I had arguments over this issue recently and I wanted to
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 2, 2007
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      Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> writes:

      >
      > It could happen. ;->
      >
      > I am no expert in martial arts, but here is my report. My point
      > ...
      > defensive in nature. (Attacking an Aikido expert is not well
      > advised, nonetheless. She will graciously aid you in falling on your
      > head.)
      >

      Thanks for sharing your experience. Sure, I forgot T'ai Chi. And
      Capoeira too. I jumped in because I had arguments over this issue
      recently and I wanted to know whether this was something shared or
      not. Apparently it is not (a bit flawed as statistics goes, sure).

      > Now I don't feel strongly one way or another about the "Dojo"
      > designation, which I take to be roughly equivalent to "Gym" (in the
      > USA sense anyway), or "Classroom". What I do feel strongly about is
      > that there is value to having a place of learning, where we set our
      > minds to be open and to experience what is being offered.
      > When I'm faced with some culturally foreign situation, I try to drop my
      > automatic defenses and let the thing happen. Sometimes I succeed
      > with that, and usually everything turns out just fine.
      >

      Yes, I fully agree with that stand. The last "dojo" we had here was
      using PHP as language, and it turned out not too be very succesful as
      a programming experiment: We did not solved the problem, and our
      partial solution is neither elegant, nor satisfying. And I think our tests
      are flawed.

      But I and probably others too learned a lot, as we could
      see how the lack of familiarity with a particular tool hindered our
      effort to apply directly skills and practices gained with other
      tools. We also gained some hands-on experiment with the right
      granularity and starting steps of TDD. And I was really interested to
      try "forgotting" my Java mechanisms and adapt to PHP.

      That's why I am a strong proponent of collective programming practice,
      somewhat outside of what we do day-to-day at work. But words are not
      innocent as newborn babies, they induce mental state and particular
      relationships rooted in their experience between all those
      participating in their usages.

      > Regards,
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > If another does not intend offense, it is wrong for me to seek it;
      > if another does indeed intend offense, it is foolish for me to permit it.

      They are definitely not random...

      Regards
      --
      OQube < software engineering \ génie logiciel >
      Arnaud Bailly, Dr.
      \web> http://www.oqube.com
    • Robert Biddle
      ... I read Ron s message and have a similar story to report. My marital art was called Salsa , and we practiced in a place called a Studio . We met the same
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 2, 2007
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        Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > I am no expert in martial arts, but here is my report. My point
        > isn't to change your mind, which I expect not to be possible, but to
        > offer a different viewpoint. My martial art is T'ai Chi,
        > ...

        I read Ron's message and have a similar story to report. My marital
        art was called "Salsa", and we practiced in a place called a
        "Studio". We met the same time every week, and our teacher helped us
        learn new skills and practice them. We also began with a ritual,
        whereby we all admired each others clothes and fitness.

        The teacher worked with us to find which techniques we wanted to
        learn, and then would organise them into smaller stories which we
        would practice with each other until they were acceptable, and then
        next week we would negotiate new stories, I mean moves.

        As is particularly relevant to the analogy with learning agile
        development, we used pairing as a way to learn, mentor and be
        mentored, and prepare for using the techniques in public. We even
        practiced promiscuous pairing. It was really great to be in a trusting
        environment where we were encouraged to look closely at other people
        as they practiced their techniques. I especially learned a lot from
        the people who were most different to me, because they moved in
        unexpected and exciting ways.

        So I agree with Ron that this was an excellent way to learn. Many of
        us met at organisations were we were encouraged to practice our
        techniques. Some later established partnerships based on this marital
        art. A friend of mine even became a coach and opened her own dojo, I
        mean studio. She gave it a cool Latin name: Mutatis-Mutandis.

        :-)
        Cheers
        Robt
      • Arnaud Bailly
        ... Mine is called Tango and the location name in use is a Practice . :-) ... ^^^^^^^ Interesting semantic collision ;-) So according to your/our examples,
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 2, 2007
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          Robert Biddle <Robert_Biddle@...> writes:

          > Ron Jeffries wrote:
          >
          > > I am no expert in martial arts, but here is my report. My point
          > > isn't to change your mind, which I expect not to be possible, but to
          > > offer a different viewpoint. My martial art is T'ai Chi,
          > > ...
          >
          > I read Ron's message and have a similar story to report. My marital
          > art was called "Salsa", and we practiced in a place called a
          > "Studio". We met the same time every week, and our teacher helped us
          > learn new skills and practice them. We also began with a ritual,
          > whereby we all admired each others clothes and fitness.
          >

          Mine is called "Tango" and the location name in use is a "Practice". :-)

          >
          > So I agree with Ron that this was an excellent way to learn. Many of
          > us met at organisations were we were encouraged to practice our
          > techniques. Some later established partnerships based on this marital
          ^^^^^^^
          Interesting semantic collision ;-)

          So according to your/our examples, here is what defines a dojo:
          1. a teacher, someone that can teach me new skills, correct me if I'm
          wrong
          2. a place, where I can practice those newly taught skills and
          congregate with ...
          3. people, like me, from which I can also learn and with which I can
          interact, with ...
          4. good will and respect.

          Regards,
          --
          OQube < software engineering \ génie logiciel >
          Arnaud Bailly, Dr.
          \web> http://www.oqube.com
        • Chris Wheeler
          ... .... techniques. Some later established partnerships based on this marital ... Then it truly was a marital art, no? ... Chris. [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 2, 2007
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            On 8/2/07, Robert Biddle <Robert_Biddle@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I read Ron's message and have a similar story to report. My marital
            > art was called "Salsa", and we practiced in a place called a

            ....

            techniques. Some later established partnerships based on this marital
            > art. A friend of mine even became a coach and opened her own dojo, I


            Then it truly was a 'marital' art, no?

            :)

            Chris.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Charlie Poole
            Hi Ron, ... Nicely put. I have that goal for myself as well, and sometimes I even achieve it. OTOH, if I m trying to communicate and my choice of language
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 2, 2007
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              Hi Ron,

              > Now I don't feel strongly one way or another about the "Dojo"
              > designation, which I take to be roughly equivalent to "Gym"
              > (in the USA sense anyway), or "Classroom". What I do feel
              > strongly about is that there is value to having a place of
              > learning, where we set our minds to be open and to experience
              > what is being offered. When I'm faced with some culturally
              > foreign situation, I try to drop my automatic defenses and
              > let the thing happen. Sometimes I succeed with that, and
              > usually everything turns out just fine.

              Nicely put. I have that goal for myself as well, and sometimes
              I even achieve it. OTOH, if I'm trying to communicate and my
              choice of language fails to connect with other folks, I find
              it's usually more useful for me to adapt my language rather
              than trying to stretch their level of acceptance. Of course,
              the latter would be more convenient for me... if it worked...

              I think it's good for programs and people to be generous in the
              variations of input they will accept while putting fewer demands
              on the generosity of those who must process their output.

              Charlie

              Charlie

              > Regards,
              >
              > Ron Jeffries
              > www.XProgramming.com
              > If another does not intend offense, it is wrong for me to
              > seek it; if another does indeed intend offense, it is foolish
              > for me to permit it.
              > -- Kelly Easterley
              >
              >
              >
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            • Michael Spayd
              Hi All, Hey, this has become a really cool chain :-). Thanks so much for all your answers. I have only had time to thoroughly read the first few, then skimmed
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 2, 2007
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                Hi All,

                Hey, this has become a really cool chain :-). Thanks so much for all your
                answers. I have only had time to thoroughly read the first few, then skimmed
                the rest (sorry for being a bad thread host).

                This is very valuable to me and I will comb it for more juice later. For
                now, I am grateful for your help.

                I will have further questions or kudos when I get a change to digest it
                (probably next week)

                Bonne Weekende, toute le monde,

                Michael


                On 8/2/07, Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...> wrote:
                >
                > Robert Biddle <Robert_Biddle@... <Robert_Biddle%40Carleton.Ca>>
                > writes:
                >
                > > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                > >
                > > > I am no expert in martial arts, but here is my report. My point
                > > > isn't to change your mind, which I expect not to be possible, but to
                > > > offer a different viewpoint. My martial art is T'ai Chi,
                > > > ...
                > >
                > > I read Ron's message and have a similar story to report. My marital
                > > art was called "Salsa", and we practiced in a place called a
                > > "Studio". We met the same time every week, and our teacher helped us
                > > learn new skills and practice them. We also began with a ritual,
                > > whereby we all admired each others clothes and fitness.
                > >
                >
                > Mine is called "Tango" and the location name in use is a "Practice". :-)
                >
                > >
                > > So I agree with Ron that this was an excellent way to learn. Many of
                > > us met at organisations were we were encouraged to practice our
                > > techniques. Some later established partnerships based on this marital
                > ^^^^^^^
                > Interesting semantic collision ;-)
                >
                > So according to your/our examples, here is what defines a dojo:
                > 1. a teacher, someone that can teach me new skills, correct me if I'm
                > wrong
                > 2. a place, where I can practice those newly taught skills and
                > congregate with ...
                > 3. people, like me, from which I can also learn and with which I can
                > interact, with ...
                > 4. good will and respect.
                >
                > Regards,
                > --
                > OQube < software engineering \ génie logiciel >
                > Arnaud Bailly, Dr.
                > \web> http://www.oqube.com
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Michael K. Spayd
                Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
                "Business Mind, Social Heart"
                michael.spayd@...
                720.300.5286

                "Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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