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Re: Business and Software Perspectives Re: [XP] Defining Agile (feedback via running software)

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  • Robert Biddle
    Back a month or so ago, there was a sub-thread that I have kept thinking about, and want to revisit. The message below was key post. I went back and re-read
    Message 1 of 503 , Aug 1, 2007
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      Back a month or so ago, there was a sub-thread
      that I have kept thinking about, and want to revisit. The message below
      was key post. I went back and re-read the later messages, but I couldn't
      keep track of it.

      Joe: it was your reply to the message of Sidharta's that I want to
      revisit. Would you mind having another go at explaining your position
      here?

      Thanks
      Robert

      MESSAGE FROM OLD THREAD:

      Re: Uh, we /do/ talk about failure, thank you (Re: [XP] New Article:)

      Siddharta Govindaraj wrote:

      > Note the quotes around proxy. Its there in the original text. A
      > Product Owner is a proxy. Beck is specifically against a proxy and
      > asking for a real customer. It does make a difference.
      >
      > Except, when you can't get a real customer what do you do? You modify
      > the process and use a proxy. And this modification is done so often
      > that they are almost synonymous now - just what Kent Beck is warning
      > against.
      >
      > This is an example of modifying the process to suit the environment
      > dont you think? So common that no one thinks about it anymore, which
      > is bad in a sense that we try less hard to get a real customer on
      > board. But in many cases it is a reasonable modification because the
      > reality is that it is very hard to get a customer in the team.

      I don't think it's reasonable, because it encourages you to accept that
      it's better to waste some multiple of $100k to avoid spending $80k/year
      on a real customer. I bet you could hire a retiree in your domain at a
      modest salary and get real value, instead of hiring another expensive
      business analyst to be a customer proxy.
      --
      J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
      Your guide to software craftsmanship
      JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
      2005 Gordon Pask Award for contribution Agile Software Practice
    • Bob Payne
      Dear Xpers, Ever wanted an Agile Planning/Development class with a real customer. Interested in learning Rails Development working from real examples on a real
      Message 503 of 503 , Sep 12, 2007
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        Dear Xpers,

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