Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [XP] Re: Measuring productivity

Expand Messages
  • Ilja Preuss
    ... How would management know whether time reporting was proper? Curious, Ilja
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      seidolce1960 wrote:

      > I hope developers do not lie when they report their time. You need to have management that
      > reward proper time reporting.

      How would management know whether time reporting was proper?

      Curious, Ilja
    • Chris Wheeler
      ... Speaking of productivity, there is an interesting paper called Kratylus Automates His Urnworks that addresses some issues around deciding what
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        On 6/28/07, chet hendrickson <lists@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello David,
        >
        > In you comments you related your findings on productivity between
        > agile and traditional development as measured in hours per function
        > point. Can you tell us more about the hours part of this. Are you
        > measuring developer hours per function point or all hours expended on
        > the project?


        Speaking of productivity, there is an interesting paper called 'Kratylus
        Automates His Urnworks' that addresses some issues around deciding what
        productivity is and how it could be measured. I can't recall who wrote it,
        but it's a fairly fun read and should make anyone come away with some
        different thoughts around productivity.

        Chris.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave Nicolette
        ... wrote it, ... I googled the title and found a reference to it: Harvard Business Review, May-June 1984 Kratylus Automates His Urnworks, by Tolly Kizilos The
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Wheeler"
          <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 6/28/07, chet hendrickson <lists@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello David,
          > >
          > > In you comments you related your findings on productivity between
          > > agile and traditional development as measured in hours per function
          > > point. Can you tell us more about the hours part of this. Are you
          > > measuring developer hours per function point or all hours expended on
          > > the project?
          >
          >
          > Speaking of productivity, there is an interesting paper called 'Kratylus
          > Automates His Urnworks' that addresses some issues around deciding what
          > productivity is and how it could be measured. I can't recall who
          wrote it,
          > but it's a fairly fun read and should make anyone come away with some
          > different thoughts around productivity.
          >
          > Chris.

          I googled the title and found a reference to it:

          Harvard Business Review, May-June 1984
          Kratylus Automates His Urnworks, by Tolly Kizilos

          The full text may be available in a subscription online library or in
          a meatspace library. Sounds interesting.

          Dave
        • Scott Ambler
          ... need to have management that ... How many times have you seen people fill in their time sheets so that it conforms to the plan, regardless of what actually
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 2, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ilja Preuss <it@...> wrote:
            >
            > seidolce1960 wrote:
            >
            > > I hope developers do not lie when they report their time. You
            need to have management that
            > > reward proper time reporting.
            >
            > How would management know whether time reporting was proper?

            How many times have you seen people fill in their time sheets so that
            it conforms to the plan, regardless of what actually happened? Is
            that proper?

            How many times have you seen people fill in their timesheets with
            lower hours than actually worked so that they came in on budget?

            Also, is time expended the real issue? If I spend 50 hours coding,
            is that more valuable than the 5 minutes I spent to come up with an
            architectural strategy that saved 500 hours of coding?

            - Scott
          • Nicholas Cancelliere
            100% agree with you here Scott, well put. I ve seen it happen on the projects I work on. If accounting wants more capex hours the managers would tell me find
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              100% agree with you here Scott, well put. I've seen it happen on the
              projects I work on. If accounting wants more capex hours the
              managers would tell me find and bill as much capex as I could (almost
              hinting that I should ignore or try not to find opex hours). Or when
              opex was desired, it'd be the other way around. Then you had the
              developers themselves trying to either look under budget or not
              appear to be underestimating (which is erroneously looked at as
              incompetence, if you can't estimate right - in itself a whole other
              problem).

              In the end you get numbers that are nothing near reality. I don't
              think having developers keep their hours is any accurate gauge of
              productivity because of my experience. And as you said -- if someone
              spends 2 hrs on something to eliminate 2 days of coding find a better
              solution to something, how much is that worth?

              Nicholas



              On Jul 2, 2007, at 2:47 AM, Scott Ambler wrote:

              > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ilja Preuss <it@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> seidolce1960 wrote:
              >>
              >>> I hope developers do not lie when they report their time. You
              > need to have management that
              >>> reward proper time reporting.
              >>
              >> How would management know whether time reporting was proper?
              >
              > How many times have you seen people fill in their time sheets so that
              > it conforms to the plan, regardless of what actually happened? Is
              > that proper?
              >
              > How many times have you seen people fill in their timesheets with
              > lower hours than actually worked so that they came in on budget?
              >
              > Also, is time expended the real issue? If I spend 50 hours coding,
              > is that more valuable than the 5 minutes I spent to come up with an
              > architectural strategy that saved 500 hours of coding?
              >
              > - Scott
              >
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-
              > unsubscribe@...
              >
              > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

              ---
              Nicholas Cancelliere
              Austin, TX




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.