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Programming Languages and XP (was Re: [OT] Re: [XP] Extreme Testing!)

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  • Dave Nicolette
    ... Ruby, ... duplicate ... removing ... designs ... It matters, yes. I just don t think it s a design question per se. Dave
    Message 1 of 111 , Jul 1, 2007
      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "J. B. Rainsberger"
      <jbrains762@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dave Nicolette wrote:
      >
      > > > A simple example: when I extract an interface, C++ forces me to
      > > > duplicate the method declaration in various header files. I have to
      > > > declare the method in the interface definition and each of its
      > > > implementations. I don't have this problem in Java, Smalltalk,
      Ruby,
      > > > Python, and others. So here is a case where C++ forces me to
      duplicate
      > > > code that other languages don't force me to duplicate. Since
      removing
      > > > duplication is part of simple design, in this direction, C++
      designs
      > > are
      > > > more complex than, say, Java designs.
      > >
      > > Are you describing design as such or language-dependent implementation
      > > details?
      >
      > If the language forces me to write more code for the same design, that
      > matters, no?

      It matters, yes.

      I just don't think it's a design question per se.

      Dave


      > --
      > J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
      > Your guide to software craftsmanship
      > JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
      > 2005 Gordon Pask Award for contribution Agile Software Practice
      >
    • J. B. Rainsberger
      ... I understand your point. I was partly acting as the devil s advocate and partly asking a genuine question about Smalltalk as a Smalltalk novice. Take care.
      Message 111 of 111 , Jul 6, 2007
        Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > Hello, J.. On Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 11:44:11 PM, you wrote:
        >
        > > So is the interface an important element of the design? In Smalltalk,
        > > the interface is implicit, because we can only deduce it by noticing the
        > > same method signatures in multiple classes and looking for the client
        > > code that uses the corresponding classes polymorphically (not knowing a
        > > more proper way to express that idea). Does Smalltalk then not obscure
        > > intent in this area? If not, why not?
        >
        > It can. There are implementations of interface-like things if you
        > want them. And other ways of expressing the thing.
        >
        > On the other hand, polymorphism without all that rigidity has value
        > too.
        >
        > But my only point was that the two designs, as reflected in the
        > code, are different. I'm not making a claim as to which one is
        > better, only that the language does make a difference to the design,
        > at least as implemented.

        I understand your point. I was partly acting as the devil's advocate and
        partly asking a genuine question about Smalltalk as a Smalltalk novice.

        Take care.
        --
        J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
        Your guide to software craftsmanship
        JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
        2005 Gordon Pask Award for contribution Agile Software Practice
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