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RUP vs. XP

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  • yann.granger
    Hi all, i m a french student writing a paper on RUP vs. XP, diferences, advantage and the right method for the job. i m looking for some feedback or experience
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 2 8:59 AM
      Hi all,
      i'm a french student writing a paper on RUP vs. XP, diferences,
      advantage and the right method for the job.

      i'm looking for some feedback or experience on which method is best
      used for which project regarding.

      I found this : http://www.agiledata.org/essays/differentStrategies.html
      But it's to simple and the choices are not very explained.

      Can you help me.
      Yann
    • Scott Ambler
      A few thoughts: 1. From the point of view of someone currently on the RUP team I d like to say that waterfall RUP , whatever that is, is consider a serious
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 3 4:06 AM
        A few thoughts:
        1. From the point of view of someone currently on the
        RUP team I'd like to say that "waterfall RUP",
        whatever that is, is consider a serious mistake and is
        not RUP. Unfortunately many organizations have chosen
        to take this sort of approach, something that is
        clearly going against the RUP tailoring guidelines.
        2. Instead of worrying about RUP vs. XP, why not worry
        about understanding what you're trying to achieve and
        then based on that understanding identify a good fit.
        Maybe you'll discover that neither RUP nor XP is the
        best fit for your situation. Perhaps DSDM, or FDD, or
        OpenUP, or PSP/TSP is the way to go.
        3. For a good introduction to RUP, you might want to
        look at
        http://www.ambysoft.com/unifiedprocess/rupIntroduction.html
        4. For a good introduction to XP, you might want to
        look at http://www.extremeprogramming.org/

        - Scott


        Scott W. Ambler
        Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Methods Group
        http://www-306.ibm.com/software/rational/bios/ambler.html

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      • dnicolet99
        ... What makes a waterfall a waterfall? Is the classical, linear waterfall the only case? I would say that any batch-and-queue process that defines specific
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 3 5:28 AM
          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Scott Ambler
          <scottwambler@...> wrote:
          >
          > 1. From the point of view of someone currently on the
          > RUP team I'd like to say that "waterfall RUP",
          > whatever that is, is consider a serious mistake and is
          > not RUP.

          What makes a waterfall a waterfall? Is the classical, linear waterfall
          the only case? I would say that any batch-and-queue process that
          defines specific stages of activity that are (usually) carried out by
          specialists in one discipline or another, and in which the specialists
          working on one stage hand off their work to the specialists working on
          the next stage by dumping their results into a work queue, supported
          by formal transition rituals and template-based documentation,
          qualifies as a waterfall process. An iterative waterfall process
          repeats the stages many times on a smaller scale than the classical
          waterfall, but the steps are still present and the sequential,
          prescriptive mentality still prevails. So, there you have "whatever
          that is."

          I think you're half right: It's a serious mistake.

          A smart person once described RUP as a prescriptive process that takes
          an "iterative, requirements-driven, and architecture-centric
          approach." Agile development is an adaptive, customer-driven, and
          value-centric approach in which requirements are discovered through
          collaboration and architecture evolves through the addition of
          customer-requested features and refactoring. The two sound fairly
          different to me.

          A smart person once came up with the very useful concept of the
          "generalizing specialist." This is the type of professional who
          functions well on an agile team. Since RUP is usually implemented as
          an iterative waterfall process, pure specialists tend to be more
          welcome than generalizing specialists on those projects. Did the same
          mind that conceived the generalizing specialist also conceive of RUP
          as an agile process? If so, it goes to show the amazing flexibility of
          the human mind; truly the stuff of the Discovery Channel.

          You might argue that this is a problem of implementation or that it
          represents a misunderstanding of RUP. You might be right. But it is
          what it is.

          > 2. Instead of worrying about RUP vs. XP, why not worry
          > about understanding what you're trying to achieve and
          > then based on that understanding identify a good fit.

          +1
        • yann.granger
          Thank you all for your reply, my topic IS Xp vs. RUP, can t go throught that and talk about dsdm or anything else... I based my reflection on the iterative RUP
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 3 8:16 AM
            Thank you all for your reply,
            my topic IS Xp vs. RUP, can't go throught that and talk about dsdm or
            anything else...
            I based my reflection on the iterative RUP not on waterfall.
            Have you got any idea on what kind of project is aware with xp vs. RUP ?

            Thx.

            Yann

            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Scott Ambler
            <scottwambler@...> wrote:
            >
            > A few thoughts:
            > 1. From the point of view of someone currently on the
            > RUP team I'd like to say that "waterfall RUP",
            > whatever that is, is consider a serious mistake and is
            > not RUP. Unfortunately many organizations have chosen
            > to take this sort of approach, something that is
            > clearly going against the RUP tailoring guidelines.
            > 2. Instead of worrying about RUP vs. XP, why not worry
            > about understanding what you're trying to achieve and
            > then based on that understanding identify a good fit.
            > Maybe you'll discover that neither RUP nor XP is the
            > best fit for your situation. Perhaps DSDM, or FDD, or
            > OpenUP, or PSP/TSP is the way to go.
            > 3. For a good introduction to RUP, you might want to
            > look at
            > http://www.ambysoft.com/unifiedprocess/rupIntroduction.html
            > 4. For a good introduction to XP, you might want to
            > look at http://www.extremeprogramming.org/
            >
            > - Scott
            >
            >
            > Scott W. Ambler
            > Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Methods Group
            > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/rational/bios/ambler.html
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
          • Scott Ambler
            A few more thoughts: 1. Many orgs do in fact have mini-waterfalls for what they call RUP iterations. That s still not RUP, but is an improvement over a big
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 3 9:00 AM
              A few more thoughts:
              1. Many orgs do in fact have mini-waterfalls for what
              they call RUP iterations. That's still not RUP, but
              is an improvement over a big waterfall.
              2. Mini-waterfalls is a valid approach in some
              situations and can be a step in the right direction
              for a lot of companies.
              3. Undoubtably some RUP training in the past was
              questionable because the instructors didn't know what
              they were teaching. Undoubtably some RUP training
              today is questionable because the instructors don't
              know what they claim to be teaching. Anyone can claim
              to be a good instructor of anything, but you need to
              determine whether that's actually true or not.

              - Scott

              Scott W. Ambler
              Practice Leader Agile Development, IBM Methods Group
              http://www-306.ibm.com/software/rational/bios/ambler.html

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • Agustin Villena
              Hi I m working in my Computer Science Master thesis evaluating a custom model to teach XP inside a RUP influenced University. One of my conclusions is: the
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 4 7:05 AM
                Hi

                I'm working in my Computer Science Master thesis evaluating a custom model
                to teach XP inside a RUP influenced University. One of my conclusions is:
                the main difference between RUP and XP is the focus, summarized in the very
                fist agile principle: Individuals and interactions over processes and tools.

                This difference has deep implications. All the values, principles and
                practices of XP are oriented to empower the people involved in the software
                development project, giving them tools that improve learning and improve
                their decission making skills.

                XP and RUP could have in common iterations, and even more, some
                configuration of Rational Rose (or whatever IBM calls it today) could
                resemble the XP workflow in detail, but is not the some workflow that some
                tool can track that makes XP work, but the shared culture of people that
                follows this principles, values and practices.

                Good Luck
                Agustin Villena
                Universidad de Chile


                On 02 Apr 2007 17:14:08 -0700, yann.granger <yann.granger@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi all,
                > i'm a french student writing a paper on RUP vs. XP, diferences,
                > advantage and the right method for the job.
                >
                > i'm looking for some feedback or experience on which method is best
                > used for which project regarding.
                >
                > I found this : http://www.agiledata.org/essays/differentStrategies.html
                > But it's to simple and the choices are not very explained.
                >
                > Can you help me.
                > Yann
                >
                >
                >


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