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Re: [XP] Re: The nature of executive "pushback" to agile technologies?

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  • Steven Gordon
    Most of the time we cannot actually know whether we can do it or not. Furthermore, most of the time we really do not even know what it really entails until
    Message 1 of 119 , Mar 1, 2007
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      Most of the time we cannot actually know whether we can do "it" or not.
      Furthermore, most of the time we really do not even know what "it" really
      entails until we are in the middle of doing the work.

      First, everyone has to stop being afraid to be honest about what we really
      know, what we are guessing about, and what we are just saying to make our
      bosses happy for the moment. Then, we can proceed to use a collaborative,
      empirical process to iteratively hone in on both what "it" really entails
      and how much of "it" is likely to be completely done on any given date.

      That is agility, and if anywhere along the management chain somebody
      continues to believe that pressuring their direct reports to tell them what
      they want to hear is the best way to achieve business goals, there will be
      resistance to agility.

      Steve

      On 3/1/07, ryanpcooper <ryan.p.cooper@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think it would be hard to market the energy drink if you sed rocket
      > technology to get to the top of Everest. :)
      >
      > That nitpick aside, I completely agree with you. It was not obvious
      > from your original post that this was your point of view.
      >
      > I was afraid that you were one of those people whose first response to
      > a deadline/scope combination is "we can do it, boss", even when it
      > really *is* impossible.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Ryan
      >
      > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com<extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Chris Wheeler"
      > <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > If the ROI is tens of millions, then perhaps $3-$10 million dollars
      > invested
      > > in some rocket-powered vehicle would do the trick.
      > >
      > > I've been in these situations, and at first things don't seem
      > realistic. As
      > > Steve R. said earlier, sometimes it's good to say no, it can't be
      > done. But
      > > don't be surprised if you are asked the question 'How can we get it
      > done?'.
      > > I'm paid to figure out how to deliver that thing and make the
      > company money,
      > > not to complain about how impossible something is. To me, the most
      > powerful
      > > tool in the agilist's handbag is customer bartering - getting to the
      > essence
      > > of a feature, and delivering the simplest thing that fulfills that
      > essence.
      > > And then moving onto getting customer feedback around that feature.
      > 9 time
      > > out of 10, the impossible is delivered.
      > >
      > > Chris.
      > >
      > > On 3/1/07, ryanpcooper <ryan.p.cooper@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Here's the business value: I get tens of millions in free advertising
      > > > for my new 'energy drink' when you make it to the top of Everest in
      > > > record time.
      > > >
      > > > Now tell me how you are going to get to the top of Everest in 3 hours.
      > > >
      > > > My point, which I seem to have failed to communicate effectively, is
      > > > that there IS something wrong with setting a goal and a date, and
      > > > expecting the team to tell you how they're going to do it, if it's
      > > > completely unrealistic. The goal/date combinations provided to
      > > > software development teams often are.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > > Ryan
      > > >
      > > > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com<extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Chris Wheeler"
      > > > <christopher.wheeler@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I think you missed the point - that may not be based on business
      > > > needs. I
      > > > > said, presume goal and date are business driven.
      > > > >
      > > > > On 3/1/07, ryanpcooper <ryan.p.cooper@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > What's wrong with me telling you I expect you to climb mount
      > everest
      > > > > > in 3 hours, and expecting you to tell me how you are going to
      > do it?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ;)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com<extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Chris Wheeler"
      > > > > > <christopher.wheeler@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > What's wrong with setting a goal and a date, and expecting a
      > team to
      > > > > > tell
      > > > > > > you how they are going to meet that goal and that date?
      > Presuming
      > > > > > that the
      > > > > > > goal and the date are both driven by business needs?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Chris.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@
      > > > > >
      > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --
      > > > > --
      > > > > Chris Wheeler
      > > > > chriswheeler.blogspot.com
      > > > > coach, programmer & practitioner
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      > > >
      > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      > > >
      > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > --
      > > Chris Wheeler
      > > chriswheeler.blogspot.com
      > > coach, programmer & practitioner
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steve Ropa
      Oh, darn. I was just thinking I should create a rule that automatically deletes anything that comes in! So close! Oh well. Sorting your email as it comes
      Message 119 of 119 , Mar 6, 2007
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        Oh, darn. I was just thinking I should create a rule that automatically
        deletes anything that comes in! So close! Oh well.



        Sorting your email as it comes in is an excellent way to triage what is
        important, what can wait, and what just doesn't matter.



        One approach I learned as a stockbroker (albeit with paper instead of email)
        is to automatically sort everything that comes in into its proper folder if
        it has one. Anything left in the inbox can wait until you have taken care
        of all of the sorted mail. Then, once a month, just wholesale delete
        everything in the main inbox. If it wasn't categorizable (not a real word),
        and you hadn't already acted on it, it couldn't have been important anyway.



        Anyway, I can tell that I currently have enough slack, because I can spend
        time arguing the merits of an empty inbox..



        _____

        From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Roth
        Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:19 PM
        To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [XP] What is "bad" management?



        It depends on how you want to set up your workflow,
        and where the bottlenecks occur.

        One insight I've gotten from GTD is that, if you leave
        stuff in your inbox, it's got two rather bad effects.
        First, you go over it multiple times deciding whether
        it's something to be dealt with now, and second, it
        isn't where you need it when you're ready to deal
        with a project.

        That doesn't mean you clean out your mail client!
        If you want to hold mail related to a project on the
        client in a separate folder until you're ready to deal
        with it, that's fine. They have to be easily locatable
        from the central point of the project, and out of the
        way until then.

        John Roth

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Steve Ropa" <sropa@xavient. <mailto:sropa%40xavient.com> com>
        To: <extremeprogramming@ <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 10:56 AM
        Subject: RE: [XP] What is "bad" management?

        > Which means we might have uncovered where I am not understanding. What is
        > it about my inbox that affects rapid turnaround on work effects?
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: extremeprogramming@ <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:extremeprogramming@ <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phlip
        > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 10:22 AM
        > To: extremeprogramming@ <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] What is "bad" management?
        >
        >
        >
        > Steve Ropa wrote:
        >
        >> These are a lot of good suggestions if an empty inbox is a goal you have.
        >
        > Then we are back to the "Lean" notion of rapid turnaround on work effects.
        >
        > --
        > Phlip
        > http://c2.com/ <http://c2.com/ <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand>
        cgi/wiki?ZeekLand> cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT
        > a
        > blog!!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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