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Re: [XP] What's up with Rails?

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  • Phlip
    ... Oh, really, the very first line of your citation: I ve been a test-driven developer for quite a while... Rails is a thin layer over huge dominating
    Message 1 of 55 , Nov 29, 2006
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      Manlio Malaidini wrote:

      > On 11/29/06, Phlip <phlip2005@...> wrote:

      >> And Rails was invented using Test Driven Development.
      >
      > Oh, really?!? Interesting, because apparently DHH is still trying to
      > practice TDD for a month:
      > http://www.43things.com/people/progress/David/16399

      Oh, really, the very first line of your citation:

      "I've been a test-driven developer for quite a while..."

      Rails is a thin layer over huge dominating test-resistant legacy modules -
      HTML, DOM, JavaScript, your least favorite browser, SQL, etc. You typically
      find yourself writing half a test, writing the code, manually determining
      what code works, and then adding assertions to the test which pin that code
      down.

      You get most of the benefits of test-/first/, including the ability to
      refactor and release rapidly. If Rails had more true test-first in its core,
      then your new tests cases would be easier to write first, too.

      This is a job for a book on test-first for GUIs, huh?

      --
      Phlip
      http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
    • Kent Beck
      Charlie, Having coined the phrase, I can speak with a fair amount of certainty that test-first has always been a part of TDD. When I first started writing
      Message 55 of 55 , Jan 12, 2007
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        Charlie,

        Having coined the phrase, I can speak with a fair amount of certainty that
        test-first has always been a part of TDD. When I first started writing tests
        first, I focused on that aspect. When I started writing the TDD book, I
        realized that what I did was really the combination of test-first and
        incremental design, and that either component technique could be used on its
        own.

        Regards,

        Kent Beck
        Three Rivers Institute


        _____

        From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Poole
        Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 3:11 PM
        To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [XP] Re: What's up with Rails?



        > > >using automated tests to drive all aspects of development, at all
        > > >scales.
        >
        > Not so many years ago, the term TDD didn't necessarily imply
        > "test- first". Fortunately, like other agile concepts and
        > practices, ideas about just what TDD "is" have evolved over
        > time. Today, TDD implies test-first. There is no need to
        > invent another TLA to describe test- first development.

        Interesting... In my own personal experience, I've only run into
        the notion of TDD without doing the tests first fairly recently,
        as an error in interpretation on the part of those who weren't
        around when TDD grew - as I believe it did - out of test-first.

        As a matter of historical curiosity, I'd love to see some
        examples of the early use of TDD without "firstness"

        Charlie







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