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XP and Agile

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  • geoffrey_slinker
    I am trying to recall when the term Agile was associated with XP. I don t recall the term Agile in XP2E. When does the term Agile and XP become associated?
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 20, 2006
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      I am trying to recall when the term "Agile" was associated with XP.

      I don't recall the term Agile in XP2E. When does the term Agile and XP
      become associated?

      Has Kent Beck ever included XP in the Agile arena?

      Even though I am probably wrong it seems to me that Agile appeared
      after XP.

      Geoff
      (back from vacation just in time to go on Thanksgiving vacation.
      Sweeeeeet)
    • Doug Swartz
      ... Kent (and Ward and Ron), attended the Snowbird meeting in February 2001 where the Agile Manifesto was written. At this meeting, as described by Martin
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 20, 2006
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        Monday, November 20, 2006, 5:38:11 PM, geoffrey_slinker wrote:

        > I am trying to recall when the term "Agile" was associated with XP.

        > I don't recall the term Agile in XP2E. When does the term Agile and XP
        > become associated?

        > Has Kent Beck ever included XP in the Agile arena?

        Kent (and Ward and Ron), attended the Snowbird meeting in
        February 2001 where the Agile Manifesto was written. At this
        meeting, as described by Martin Fowler, the group of thought
        leaders present decided that Agile was a better, more
        descriptive, (perhaps more marketable) term for the kinds of
        software processes they were doing, than "lightweight". See
        Martin's article at
        http://www.martinfowler.com/articles/agileStory.html.

        > Even though I am probably wrong it seems to me that Agile appeared
        > after XP.

        In the context of software development, I believe you are
        right. Of course, it also came after SCRUM, DSDM, ....


        --

        Doug Swartz
      • Ron Jeffries
        Hello, geoffrey_slinker. On Monday, November 20, 2006, at 6:38:11 ... The term Agile was coined when we wrote the Agile Manifesto, in 2001. Kent Beck was
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 20, 2006
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          Hello, geoffrey_slinker. On Monday, November 20, 2006, at 6:38:11
          PM, you wrote:

          > I am trying to recall when the term "Agile" was associated with XP.

          > I don't recall the term Agile in XP2E. When does the term Agile and XP
          > become associated?

          > Has Kent Beck ever included XP in the Agile arena?

          > Even though I am probably wrong it seems to me that Agile appeared
          > after XP.

          The term Agile was coined when we wrote the Agile Manifesto, in
          2001. Kent Beck was there. XP had been being done since 1996. The
          other Manifesto authors had been doing their various methods for
          that long or longer. Scrum had been around for a long time.

          Agile was invented as an umbrella term for what all of us were
          doing, and appeared after the term XP or the term Scrum, which
          predates XP.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          To follow the path:
          Look to the master; Follow the master; Walk with the master;
          See through the master; Become the master. -- Modern Zen Poem
        • Kent Beck
          Geoff, Extreme Programming existed before the use of Agile Development to describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird workshop where the
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 27, 2006
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            Geoff,

            Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile Development" to
            describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird workshop
            where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was chosen by the group
            as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was marketing these ideas not
            describing them.

            I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible Development)
            because "agile" is not a defensible word. It is easier to sell to people
            than the word extreme. It sounds less risky. Everybody would like to be
            known as "agile", so without a big budget for branding and the willingness
            to sue, inevitably the meaning of the word erodes.

            I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It seems to me that
            the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to ease our practices into
            a company with some degree of deception, is to imply that scrum, crystal,
            DSDM and XP are equivalent menu choices. Claim to use any one of these and
            you are agile! I don't believe that to be a useful description of any of the
            processes or their outcomes.

            Cheers,

            Kent Beck
            Three Rivers Institute


            _____

            From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geoffrey_slinker
            Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:38 PM
            To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [XP] XP and Agile



            I am trying to recall when the term "Agile" was associated with XP.

            I don't recall the term Agile in XP2E. When does the term Agile and XP
            become associated?

            Has Kent Beck ever included XP in the Agile arena?

            Even though I am probably wrong it seems to me that Agile appeared
            after XP.

            Geoff
            (back from vacation just in time to go on Thanksgiving vacation.
            Sweeeeeet)







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Donald Roby
            ... I wasn t there, but I rather like the word agile, and think it was a good choice. Perhaps I ve just fallen for the marketing... I rather suspect also that
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 27, 2006
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              Kent Beck wrote:

              >Geoff,
              >
              >Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile Development" to
              >describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird workshop
              >where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was chosen by the group
              >as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was marketing these ideas not
              >describing them.
              >
              >
              I wasn't there, but I rather like the word agile, and think it was a
              good choice. Perhaps I've just fallen for the marketing... I rather
              suspect also that others in the group may have thought that the word
              extreme wasn't appropriate to describe their processes quite outside the
              marketing implications.

              >
              >I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible Development)
              >because "agile" is not a defensible word. It is easier to sell to people
              >than the word extreme. It sounds less risky. Everybody would like to be
              >known as "agile", so without a big budget for branding and the willingness
              >to sue, inevitably the meaning of the word erodes.
              >
              >
              From dictionary.com:

              agile
              –adjective
              1. quick and well-coordinated in movement; lithe: an agile leap.
              2. active; lively: an agile person.
              3. marked by an ability to think quickly; mentally acute or aware: She's
              95 and still very agile.

              These meanings may change or erode, but I'm not sure what words'
              meanings won't. Language does that.

              The first definition seems particularly appropriate, and I think
              reflects the reason the word was chosen.

              How do you defend a word? How are the words "extreme" and "responsible"
              more defensible than "agile"? How are they more descriptive of the
              processes?

              Not that Scrum and Crystal are at all descriptive of course. ;-) DSDM
              would be if they hadn't abbreviated it to meaningless initials.

              >
              >I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It seems to me that
              >the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to ease our practices into
              >a company with some degree of deception, is to imply that scrum, crystal,
              >DSDM and XP are equivalent menu choices. Claim to use any one of these and
              >you are agile! I don't believe that to be a useful description of any of the
              >processes or their outcomes.
              >
              >
              My perception of Snowbird is of an attempt to find common ground between
              Scrum, Crystal, DSDM and XP (and maybe a few others...). I think you
              succeeded, and the selection of the word agile was part of that success.
              The statements of principles were probably more important, and probably
              more difficult.

              If some people understand this stuff little enough to view these as
              "equivalent menu choices", that's unfortunate, but perhaps inevitable.
              If they claim to use them or parts of them and be thereby agile, the
              proof will be in their agility or lack thereof and in their success or
              failure in their business.

              --
              Don Roby
            • Adrian Howard
              On 27 Nov 2006, at 21:09, Kent Beck wrote: [snip] ... [snip] Isn t Responsible going to suffer the same fate? Surely everybody would want to be responsible
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 28, 2006
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                On 27 Nov 2006, at 21:09, Kent Beck wrote:
                [snip]
                > I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible
                > Development)
                > because "agile" is not a defensible word. It is easier to sell to
                > people
                > than the word extreme. It sounds less risky. Everybody would like
                > to be
                > known as "agile", so without a big budget for branding and the
                > willingness
                > to sue, inevitably the meaning of the word erodes.
                [snip]

                Isn't "Responsible" going to suffer the same fate? Surely everybody
                would want to be responsible just like everybody would want to be
                agile. There's a lack of positive antonyms.

                BTW I'm curious whether you're considering RD to be a refinement of
                the ideas from XP1E and XP2E, or is it more different in kind?

                Cheers,

                Adrian
              • Ron Jeffries
                Hello, Kent and Geoff. On Monday, November 27, 2006, at 4:09:23 PM, ... My recollection is similar. There was no real consideration given to naming the whole
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 28, 2006
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                  Hello, Kent and Geoff. On Monday, November 27, 2006, at 4:09:23 PM,
                  you wrote:

                  > Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile Development" to
                  > describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird workshop
                  > where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was chosen by the group
                  > as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was marketing these ideas not
                  > describing them.

                  My recollection is similar. There was no real consideration given to
                  naming the whole thing "extreme", though there was some discussion
                  about the word "extreme" being too extreme. At the time, I may have
                  used, and certainly thought, the word "wuss".

                  The intention behind the choice of "Agile", to my recollection,
                  included the giving of a common name to what seemed like similar
                  ideas regarding a better way to do software development than, say,
                  Waterfall, CMM, or, of course, Chaos. At that time, there was a
                  fairly collegial attitude among the various process proponents, and
                  I at least got a sense that we were all working on the same "kind of
                  thing", as opposed to the heavy process "other kind of thing". It is
                  possible that in my naivete and enthusiasm, I was overly optimistic
                  about the collegiality and commonality of purpose, but I don't think
                  I was: I think things changed later.
                  >
                  > I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible Development)
                  > because "agile" is not a defensible word. It is easier to sell to people
                  > than the word extreme. It sounds less risky. Everybody would like to be
                  > known as "agile", so without a big budget for branding and the willingness
                  > to sue, inevitably the meaning of the word erodes.

                  It is certainly true that "agile" sounds less risky than "extreme"
                  and that it's easier to sell. I'm not sure what is meant by "not
                  defensible", nor am I aware of anyone branding and creating lawsuits
                  about Extreme or Scrum or Crystal. I would be opposed to that were
                  it to take place, as it seems to me to be counter to the values that
                  I still like to imagine we all hold in common.

                  I am not particularly troubled by the word "Agile", because it seems
                  to me to be a valid "umbrella" word, just as "animal" includes pigs,
                  chickens, and tigers, while excluding pines and marble. I am
                  troubled, however, by the fact that the meaning is, in my view,
                  vague and possibly eroding. So maybe I am troubled by the word after
                  all. I'll have to get back to you on that.

                  At the same time, we have not, as far as I can recall, been willing
                  to say that people aren't "doing XP" unless they are doing the 13 or
                  27 or umpty-leven practices ... despite the fact that each one of
                  them is an important step on the road to success. We have, in fact,
                  offered various kinds of advice that seem to approve of picking and
                  choosing the practices that one wants to use, to solve one's worst,
                  or next most interesting problem. The notion of picking and choosing
                  being OK will surely lead some people to pick and choose the wrong,
                  or too few, things. And yet ... people have to start somewhere. It's
                  a puzzlement.

                  We have seen, since the beginning, people saying "We tried XP and it
                  didn't work", only to find (in essentially every single case) that
                  they had not in fact ever done all the practices all the time. This
                  would be a lot like trying orchestral music without all the
                  instruments and then declaring it weak and somewhat thin. (See also
                  my "We tried baseball and it didn't work" article.)

                  These observations are causing me to move [back] in the direction of
                  putting more emphasis on specific practices / skills / behaviors)
                  that seem to me to be core to doing the difficult job of software
                  development well. In so doing, I try to be true to the "Agile"
                  method that I am most familiar with and most believe in, Extreme
                  Programming, also to be true to what I understand to be the common
                  values and principles of software development as written down in the
                  Agile Manifesto, and I try to be true to my own understanding of
                  truth, honesty, responsibility and the like.
                  >
                  > I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It seems to me that
                  > the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to ease our practices into
                  > a company with some degree of deception, is to imply that scrum, crystal,
                  > DSDM and XP are equivalent menu choices. Claim to use any one of these and
                  > you are agile! I don't believe that to be a useful description of any of the
                  > processes or their outcomes.

                  I do not see deception in referring to XP as "Agile", any more than
                  there is deception in referring to a horse as an animal. There is
                  imprecision, perhaps, but when two people say XP they are already in
                  a realm of imprecision. Now the term COULD be used deceptively, just
                  as when little Susie asks Mom whether she can have an animal and
                  gets the OK, Mom probably does not expect Susie to bring home a
                  Deadly Black Tarantula (dayyy-oh). I do not advise deception in any
                  form, though I have been known to advise people not to blurt out
                  every single thing that they think. The morality of that will remain
                  between me and my Maker, to be discussed at some future date.
                  Distant future, I hope.

                  Neither does calling all of Crystal, Scrum, DSDM, and XP "Agile"
                  constitute a claim that they are equivalent. Certainly they are not,
                  just as the Bichon Frise, the Russian Blue, and the Tennessee
                  Walking Horse are not equivalent even though they are all "Animals".
                  Agile is a collective name for these ideas which we once thought --
                  and I still think -- to be common among all the methods now living
                  under the Agile tent.

                  So. Is "Agile" too vague and too easy to hide behind? Yes, I think
                  it is. Is the term deceptive? Not per se, though it could be in the
                  mouth of someone unscrupulous. Is XP better than Agile? Well, only
                  if Dumbo is better than Animal. But is XP one of the best kinds of
                  Agile? Damn betcha. Nothing finer, in my opinion, whether expressed
                  ala e1 or e2. And my hat's off to Kent, and all of you, for making
                  that the case.

                  Regards,

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled,
                  the humiliating question arises, "Why then are you not taking part in
                  them?" -- H. G. Wells
                • Israel Antezana
                  Kent, Could you explain more about the term Responsible Development ? why do you say XP is now Responsible Development? a new name for XP?. Thank you in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 28, 2006
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                    Kent,

                    Could you explain more about the term "Responsible Development"? why do you say XP is now Responsible Development? a new name for XP?. Thank you in advance,

                    Best Regards,

                    Israel Antezana R.


                    Kent Beck <kentb@...> escribió:
                    Geoff,

                    Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile Development" to
                    describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird workshop
                    where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was chosen by the group
                    as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was marketing these ideas not
                    describing them.

                    I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible Development)
                    because "agile" is not a defensible word. It is easier to sell to people
                    than the word extreme. It sounds less risky. Everybody would like to be
                    known as "agile", so without a big budget for branding and the willingness
                    to sue, inevitably the meaning of the word erodes.

                    I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It seems to me that
                    the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to ease our practices into
                    a company with some degree of deception, is to imply that scrum, crystal,
                    DSDM and XP are equivalent menu choices. Claim to use any one of these and
                    you are agile! I don't believe that to be a useful description of any of the
                    processes or their outcomes.

                    Cheers,

                    Kent Beck
                    Three Rivers Institute

                    _____

                    From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geoffrey_slinker
                    Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:38 PM
                    To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [XP] XP and Agile

                    I am trying to recall when the term "Agile" was associated with XP.

                    I don't recall the term Agile in XP2E. When does the term Agile and XP
                    become associated?

                    Has Kent Beck ever included XP in the Agile arena?

                    Even though I am probably wrong it seems to me that Agile appeared
                    after XP.

                    Geoff
                    (back from vacation just in time to go on Thanksgiving vacation.
                    Sweeeeeet)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    __________________________________________________
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Adrian Howard
                    ... For the first question you might find: http://virtual.vtt.fi/virtual/xp2006/beck_keynote_xp2006.pdf of use. Adrian
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 29, 2006
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                      On 28 Nov 2006, at 22:27, Israel Antezana wrote:

                      > Kent,
                      >
                      > Could you explain more about the term "Responsible Development"?
                      > why do you say XP is now Responsible Development? a new name for
                      > XP?. Thank you in advance,

                      For the first question you might find:

                      http://virtual.vtt.fi/virtual/xp2006/beck_keynote_xp2006.pdf

                      of use.

                      Adrian
                    • Dan Hoover
                      ... Is there Audio to accompany the slideset? - Dan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 29, 2006
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                        On 11/29/06, Adrian Howard <adrianh@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > On 28 Nov 2006, at 22:27, Israel Antezana wrote:
                        >
                        > > Kent,
                        > >
                        > > Could you explain more about the term "Responsible Development"?
                        > > why do you say XP is now Responsible Development? a new name for
                        > > XP?. Thank you in advance,
                        >
                        > For the first question you might find:
                        >
                        > http://virtual.vtt.fi/virtual/xp2006/beck_keynote_xp2006.pdf
                        >
                        > of use.
                        >
                        > Adrian



                        Is there Audio to accompany the slideset?

                        - Dan


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jim Standley
                        I like both words. Extreme reminds me of Jim Williams at the end of Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil saying he continued to live in Savannah because
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 29, 2006
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                          I like both words. "Extreme" reminds me of Jim Williams at the end of
                          "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" saying he continued to live in
                          Savannah because "it pisses off all the right people." Extreme hits a
                          nerve with some folks. Sometimes it helps challenge the status quo, but
                          I avoid it in certain crowds at work. Agile is gentler and helps talk to
                          them without seeming to attack their ways.

                          Kent Beck wrote:
                          >
                          > Geoff,
                          >
                          > Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile Development" to
                          > describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird workshop
                          > where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was chosen by the group
                          > as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was marketing these ideas not
                          > describing them.
                          >
                          > I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible Development)
                          > because "agile" is not a defensible word. It is easier to sell to people
                          > than the word extreme. It sounds less risky. Everybody would like to be
                          > known as "agile", so without a big budget for branding and the willingness
                          > to sue, inevitably the meaning of the word erodes.
                          >
                          > I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It seems to me that
                          > the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to ease our practices into
                          > a company with some degree of deception, is to imply that scrum, crystal,
                          > DSDM and XP are equivalent menu choices. Claim to use any one of these and
                          > you are agile! I don't believe that to be a useful description of any of the
                          > processes or their outcomes.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Kent Beck
                          > Three Rivers Institute
                          >
                        • Charlie Poole
                          It s both gentler and vaguer... But I do the same thing at times. Charlie
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 29, 2006
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                            It's both gentler and vaguer...

                            But I do the same thing at times.

                            Charlie

                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Standley
                            > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:47 PM
                            > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [XP] XP and Agile
                            >
                            > I like both words. "Extreme" reminds me of Jim Williams at
                            > the end of "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" saying
                            > he continued to live in Savannah because "it pisses off all
                            > the right people." Extreme hits a nerve with some folks.
                            > Sometimes it helps challenge the status quo, but I avoid it
                            > in certain crowds at work. Agile is gentler and helps talk to
                            > them without seeming to attack their ways.
                            >
                            > Kent Beck wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Geoff,
                            > >
                            > > Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile
                            > Development" to
                            > > describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird
                            > > workshop where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was
                            > > chosen by the group as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was
                            > > marketing these ideas not describing them.
                            > >
                            > > I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible
                            > > Development) because "agile" is not a defensible word. It
                            > is easier to
                            > > sell to people than the word extreme. It sounds less risky.
                            > Everybody
                            > > would like to be known as "agile", so without a big budget for
                            > > branding and the willingness to sue, inevitably the meaning
                            > of the word erodes.
                            > >
                            > > I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It
                            > seems to
                            > > me that the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to
                            > ease our
                            > > practices into a company with some degree of deception, is to imply
                            > > that scrum, crystal, DSDM and XP are equivalent menu
                            > choices. Claim to
                            > > use any one of these and you are agile! I don't believe
                            > that to be a
                            > > useful description of any of the processes or their outcomes.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > >
                            > > Kent Beck
                            > > Three Rivers Institute
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                            >
                            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Nick Robinson
                            We have an interesting internal discussion going relating to this very issue of the term Agile. I am wondering what peoples thoughts are here about the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 30, 2006
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                              We have an interesting internal discussion going relating to this very issue of the term Agile. I am wondering what peoples thoughts are here about the vagueness of the term, especially if one refers to the fundamental values and principles behind the manifesto.

                              Nick Robinson
                              Lab49, Inc
                              http://www.lab49.com <http://www.lab49.com/>
                              http://blog.lab49.com <http://blog.lab49.com/>


                              ________________________________

                              From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Charlie Poole
                              Sent: Thu 30/11/2006 1:47 AM
                              To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [XP] XP and Agile



                              It's both gentler and vaguer...

                              But I do the same thing at times.

                              Charlie

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jim Standley
                              > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:47 PM
                              > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: Re: [XP] XP and Agile
                              >
                              > I like both words. "Extreme" reminds me of Jim Williams at
                              > the end of "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" saying
                              > he continued to live in Savannah because "it pisses off all
                              > the right people." Extreme hits a nerve with some folks.
                              > Sometimes it helps challenge the status quo, but I avoid it
                              > in certain crowds at work. Agile is gentler and helps talk to
                              > them without seeming to attack their ways.
                              >
                              > Kent Beck wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Geoff,
                              > >
                              > > Extreme Programming existed before the use of "Agile
                              > Development" to
                              > > describe development practice. Some XPers were at the Snowbird
                              > > workshop where the Agile Manifesto originated. The word agile was
                              > > chosen by the group as easier to hear than extreme and the goal was
                              > > marketing these ideas not describing them.
                              > >
                              > > I have chosen to remain focused on XP (and now Responsible
                              > > Development) because "agile" is not a defensible word. It
                              > is easier to
                              > > sell to people than the word extreme. It sounds less risky.
                              > Everybody
                              > > would like to be known as "agile", so without a big budget for
                              > > branding and the willingness to sue, inevitably the meaning
                              > of the word erodes.
                              > >
                              > > I checked the text of XPE2e and "agile" does not appear. It
                              > seems to
                              > > me that the goal in calling XP agile development, if not to
                              > ease our
                              > > practices into a company with some degree of deception, is to imply
                              > > that scrum, crystal, DSDM and XP are equivalent menu
                              > choices. Claim to
                              > > use any one of these and you are agile! I don't believe
                              > that to be a
                              > > useful description of any of the processes or their outcomes.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers,
                              > >
                              > > Kent Beck
                              > > Three Rivers Institute
                              > >
                              >
                              >
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Kent Beck
                              Dan, I don t think so. Regards, Kent Beck Three Rivers Institute _____ From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 1, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dan,

                                I don't think so.

                                Regards,

                                Kent Beck
                                Three Rivers Institute


                                _____

                                From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Hoover
                                Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:31 PM
                                To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [XP] XP and Agile



                                On 11/29/06, Adrian Howard <adrianh@quietstars.
                                <mailto:adrianh%40quietstars.com> com> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > On 28 Nov 2006, at 22:27, Israel Antezana wrote:
                                >
                                > > Kent,
                                > >
                                > > Could you explain more about the term "Responsible Development"?
                                > > why do you say XP is now Responsible Development? a new name for
                                > > XP?. Thank you in advance,
                                >
                                > For the first question you might find:
                                >
                                > http://virtual.
                                <http://virtual.vtt.fi/virtual/xp2006/beck_keynote_xp2006.pdf>
                                vtt.fi/virtual/xp2006/beck_keynote_xp2006.pdf
                                >
                                > of use.
                                >
                                > Adrian

                                Is there Audio to accompany the slideset?

                                - Dan

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