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Re: [XP] Why pay now when we can pay later?

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  • J. B. Rainsberger
    ... I know this is obvious, but whenever there is a tradeoff between paying less now for less return and more later for more return, I ignore profit and only
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 2, 2006
      Victor wrote:
      >
      >
      > Ron Jeffries tag line says:
      >
      > > I know we always like to say it'll be easier to do it now than it
      > will be to do it later. Not likely. I plan to be smarter later than
      > I am now, so I think it'll be just as easy later, maybe even easier.
      > Why pay now when we can pay later?
      >
      > Somebody could argue:
      > Why make the tests run now?
      > Why refactor now?
      >
      > So, without context the above line is confusing. Why use it now?

      I know this is obvious, but whenever there is a tradeoff between paying
      less now for less return and more later for more return, I ignore profit
      and only consider cashflow. If I have enough cash to get me from now to
      then, I /always/ pay more later for more return. So what's cashflow for
      a software team? Some combination of time-until-a-release and customer
      confidence/trust, I guess. Anything else? Anything better?
      --
      J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
      Your guide to software craftsmanship
      JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
      2005 Gordon Pask Award for contribution Agile Software Practice
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, Carfield. On Wednesday, November 1, 2006, at 9:28:31 AM, ... Well, I took Victor s question to relate to the fact that a signature isn t an article. In
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 2, 2006
        Hello, Carfield. On Wednesday, November 1, 2006, at 9:28:31 AM,
        you wrote:

        > In fact may be I understand the question wrong at the beginning, what
        > I understand the question is "If there we can refactoring or unit test
        > later, why we do this now? May be put more effort to make my code
        > work" . In my working environment, some of my coworker actually doing
        > that, however, the result is they haven't write single unit test
        > before they change their job.

        Well, I took Victor's question to relate to the fact that a
        signature isn't an article.

        In any case, leaving testing or refactoring until later does make it
        cost more, so we should do it now. Building a feature that isn't
        going to be used costs more now and not later so we should do it
        later. In general, one might read the sig as inviting the thoughtful
        reader to think about the impact of doing something now, vs waiting
        until later, and to make the wisest decision she's capable of.

        > So what my immediate feedback of the question is, if you don't put
        > these task is an important priority and do this first, then you will
        > never have time to do that, once you finish the current task and like
        > to move on to write unit test, the other task will come and the code
        > missing unit test accumulate and you will not bother to touch that
        > eventaully.

        I think it depends on the task. Would you agree?

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        War remains the decisive human failure.
        -- John Kenneth Galbraith
      • Carfield Yim
        ... It will be hard to disagree. For me it sound something like what this article mentioned -
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 2, 2006
          > > So what my immediate feedback of the question is, if you don't put
          > > these task is an important priority and do this first, then you will
          > > never have time to do that, once you finish the current task and like
          > > to move on to write unit test, the other task will come and the code
          > > missing unit test accumulate and you will not bother to touch that
          > > eventaully.
          >
          > I think it depends on the task. Would you agree?
          >

          It will be hard to disagree. For me it sound something like what this
          article mentioned -
          http://www.jamesshore.com/Blog/CardMeeting/Voluntary-Technical-Debt.html
          . And I think many of developer try to work on this approach, but most
          of them fail to management the debt before they quit. Just like most
          people pay more debt than he like to pay for credit card expense. Of
          course, may be someone earn of lot from getting more debt and have
          clever investment, but I don't think I can. Thus I personally like to
          be more conservative have having debt, In finance and also
          development. And I like to work with conservative people also.

          In fact, I have email Victor privately and know that I miss something
          at the original question.
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