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Re: [XP] Re: X Marks the Test Case

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, Simon. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 4:26:20 AM, you ... Yes, yes, oh God, yes, more yes more! This is so true. It s why some of us have all the
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2, 2006
      Hello, Simon. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 4:26:20 AM, you
      wrote:

      > Forgoe the software and stick to the coloured pens. The empathy
      > created with a mind map that is hand crafted cannot be under
      > estimated.

      Yes, yes, oh God, yes, more yes more!

      This is so true. It's why some of us have all the focus on cards and
      whiteboards and such physical artifacts. They're warm. Computer
      stuff is cold.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      For me, XP ain't out there, it's in here. -- Bill Caputo
    • rob_hathaway74
      ... Like the software we develop? ;-)
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2, 2006
        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
        <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, Simon. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 4:26:20 AM, you
        > wrote:
        >
        > > Forgoe the software and stick to the coloured pens. The empathy
        > > created with a mind map that is hand crafted cannot be under
        > > estimated.
        >
        > Yes, yes, oh God, yes, more yes more!
        >
        > This is so true. It's why some of us have all the focus on cards and
        > whiteboards and such physical artifacts. They're warm. Computer
        > stuff is cold.
        >

        Like the software we develop? ;-)


        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > For me, XP ain't out there, it's in here. -- Bill Caputo
        >
      • Ron Jeffries
        Hello, rob_hathaway74. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 8:06:45 ... I love developing software. But a hug from my wife is much warmer. Ron Jeffries
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2006
          Hello, rob_hathaway74. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 8:06:45
          AM, you wrote:

          >> This is so true. It's why some of us have all the focus on cards and
          >> whiteboards and such physical artifacts. They're warm. Computer
          >> stuff is cold.

          > Like the software we develop? ;-)

          I love developing software. But a hug from my wife is much warmer.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Curiosity is more powerful than skepticism.
        • Ilja Preuss
          ... Yes. We should never forget that there are problems in the world that are better solved by *not* using a computer, even if we could. Cheers, Ilja
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2006
            rob_hathaway74 schrieb:
            > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
            > <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
            >> Hello, Simon. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 4:26:20 AM, you
            >> wrote:
            >>
            >>> Forgoe the software and stick to the coloured pens. The empathy
            >>> created with a mind map that is hand crafted cannot be under
            >>> estimated.
            >> Yes, yes, oh God, yes, more yes more!
            >>
            >> This is so true. It's why some of us have all the focus on cards and
            >> whiteboards and such physical artifacts. They're warm. Computer
            >> stuff is cold.
            >>
            >
            > Like the software we develop? ;-)

            Yes. We should never forget that there are problems in the world that
            are better solved by *not* using a computer, even if we could.

            Cheers, Ilja
          • Keith Ray
            ... A similar lesson is in many Terry Pratchett books, except that it s magic instead computer . -- C. Keith Ray
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2006
              > Yes. We should never forget that there are problems in the world that
              > are better solved by *not* using a computer, even if we could.

              A similar lesson is in many Terry Pratchett books, except that it's
              "magic" instead "computer".

              --

              C. Keith Ray
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
            • J. B. Rainsberger
              ... How about a hug from...? Never mind. I know the answer. -- J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca Your guide to software craftsmanship JUnit
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2006
                Ron Jeffries wrote:

                > Hello, rob_hathaway74. On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 8:06:45
                > AM, you wrote:
                >
                > >> This is so true. It's why some of us have all the focus on cards and
                > >> whiteboards and such physical artifacts. They're warm. Computer
                > >> stuff is cold.
                >
                > > Like the software we develop? ;-)
                >
                > I love developing software. But a hug from my wife is much warmer.

                How about a hug from...? Never mind. I know the answer.
                --
                J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
                Your guide to software craftsmanship
                JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
                2005 Gordon Pask Award for contribution Agile Software Practice
              • Adrian Howard
                On 2 Nov 2006, at 19:22, Ilja Preuss wrote: [snip] ... [snip] It s a really hard idea for some people to accept. I ve had problems introducing index cards to
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
                  On 2 Nov 2006, at 19:22, Ilja Preuss wrote:
                  [snip]
                  > Yes. We should never forget that there are problems in the world that
                  > are better solved by *not* using a computer, even if we could.
                  [snip]

                  It's a really hard idea for some people to accept.

                  I've had problems introducing index cards to some people when the
                  argument has run something like "we develop software - what would it
                  look like if we don't trust computers enough to help run our projects".

                  Cheers,

                  Adrian
                • Phlip
                  ... Remember that old myth of the Paperless Office? Did it work? We pick the best technology for each aspect of development, and sometimes paper cards are
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 3, 2006
                    Adrian Howard wrote:

                    > I've had problems introducing index cards to some people when the
                    > argument has run something like "we develop software - what would it
                    > look like if we don't trust computers enough to help run our projects".

                    "Remember that old myth of the Paperless Office? Did it work?

                    "We pick the best technology for each aspect of development, and sometimes
                    paper cards are best."

                    --
                    Phlip
                    http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
                  • Ilja Preuss
                    ... Yes, I ve encountered that, too. Of course the answer is that it s not about trust, but about knowing your tools, including their limitations. What kinds
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 4, 2006
                      > I've had problems introducing index cards to some people when the
                      > argument has run something like "we develop software - what would it
                      > look like if we don't trust computers enough to help run our projects".

                      Yes, I've encountered that, too.

                      Of course the answer is that it's not about trust, but about knowing
                      your tools, including their limitations.

                      What kinds of professionals are we if we blindly throw the same solution
                      (=software) at every problem we encounter?

                      Cheers, Ilja
                    • Adrian Howard
                      ... The scary thing for me was that my reply of aren t we in the business of giving the customer the best possible solution was answered with no - we re in
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 5, 2006
                        On 4 Nov 2006, at 12:35, Ilja Preuss wrote:

                        >> I've had problems introducing index cards to some people when the
                        >> argument has run something like "we develop software - what would it
                        >> look like if we don't trust computers enough to help run our
                        >> projects".
                        >
                        > Yes, I've encountered that, too.
                        >
                        > Of course the answer is that it's not about trust, but about knowing
                        > your tools, including their limitations.
                        >
                        > What kinds of professionals are we if we blindly throw the same
                        > solution
                        > (=software) at every problem we encounter?

                        The scary thing for me was that my reply of "aren't we in the
                        business of giving the customer the best possible solution" was
                        answered with "no - we're in the business of selling them software"...

                        Adrian
                      • Christophe Thibaut
                        Hello Adrian, ... On the brochure they send to their customer and on their web site index page, does one reads Our business is to sell you software I
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 9, 2006
                          Hello Adrian,
                          > The scary thing for me was that my reply of "aren't we in the
                          > business of giving the customer the best possible solution" was
                          > answered with "no - we're in the business of selling them software"...

                          On the brochure they send to their customer and on their web site index
                          page, does one reads

                          "Our business is to sell you software"

                          I wonder...
                          Regards
                          Christophe




                          Adrian Howard a écrit :
                          >
                          >
                          > On 4 Nov 2006, at 12:35, Ilja Preuss wrote:
                          >
                          > >> I've had problems introducing index cards to some people when the
                          > >> argument has run something like "we develop software - what would it
                          > >> look like if we don't trust computers enough to help run our
                          > >> projects".
                          > >
                          > > Yes, I've encountered that, too.
                          > >
                          > > Of course the answer is that it's not about trust, but about knowing
                          > > your tools, including their limitations.
                          > >
                          > > What kinds of professionals are we if we blindly throw the same
                          > > solution
                          > > (=software) at every problem we encounter?
                          >
                          > The scary thing for me was that my reply of "aren't we in the
                          > business of giving the customer the best possible solution" was
                          > answered with "no - we're in the business of selling them software"...
                          >
                          > Adrian
                          >
                          >
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