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"No Silver Bullet" supports agile

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  • Keith Ray
    Like the original Waterfall paper by Royce, Brooks s article No Silver Bullet is surprisingly supportive of agile. Check it out:
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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      Like the original Waterfall paper by Royce, Brooks's article "No
      Silver Bullet" is surprisingly supportive of agile.

      Check it out: http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2006/10/23/

      --

      C. Keith Ray
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
    • geoffrey_slinker
      Thanks for the article. One thing I have noticed is that software people throw out the term No Silver Bullet as if the phrase alone is a silver bullet that
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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        Thanks for the article.

        One thing I have noticed is that software "people" throw out the term
        "No Silver Bullet" as if the phrase alone is a silver bullet that
        kills any discussion.

        Jan: "We have been evaluating a new development process..."
        Steve: interrupting says "Jan, there is no silver bullet that will fix
        all of our problems!"
        Jan: "Uh... well..."

        Geoff
      • Ron Jeffries
        Hello, Keith. Very nice article!! On Monday, October 23, 2006, at ... Sweet ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Just because XP doesn t talk about how to
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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          Hello, Keith. Very nice article!! On Monday, October 23, 2006, at
          1:25:38 PM, you wrote:

          > Like the original Waterfall paper by Royce, Brooks's article "No
          > Silver Bullet" is surprisingly supportive of agile.

          > Check it out: http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2006/10/23/

          Sweet ...

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Just because XP doesn't talk about how to make fire, should we assume it
          requires us to use sticks? -- Richard MacDonald
        • Phlip
          ... Let s define a Silver Bullet as an order-of-magnitude improvement in productivity in less than a decade . If shops that switch to XP routinely report
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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            > > Check it out: http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2006/10/23/

            Let's define a "Silver Bullet" as "an order-of-magnitude improvement
            in productivity in less than a decade".

            If shops that switch to XP routinely report their defect reports drop
            to 5% after the first year, that's an order of magnitude in 1 year,
            not 10.

            10 Silver Bullets, folks!

            One size fits all. Wash your hands before performing surgery. Etc.

            --
            Phlip
            http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
          • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
            From: Phlip To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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              From: "Phlip" <phlip2005.at.gmail.com@...>
              To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
              <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
              Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:14 PM
              Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile


              >> > Check it out: http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2006/10/23/
              >
              > Let's define a "Silver Bullet" as "an order-of-magnitude improvement
              > in productivity in less than a decade".
              >
              > If shops that switch to XP routinely report their defect reports drop
              > to 5% after the first year, that's an order of magnitude in 1 year,
              > not 10.
              >
              > 10 Silver Bullets, folks!
              >
              > One size fits all. Wash your hands before performing surgery. Etc.

              Nah. The trouble with the "silver bullet" is the unexamined
              assumption that everything was just peachy-keen before
              the vampire showed up. So the masked man rides in,
              loads his trusty revolver, shoots the vampire. The villagers
              take the body out to bury it at the crossroads with a stake
              through its heart and the masked man rides off into the distance
              with a cry of "Hi-yo Argent!"

              Then everything goes back the way it was, that is, great.
              In the "silver bullet" scenario the vampire, werewolf, whatever
              is an outside influence that's outside of the villager's competence
              to handle. So what's the outside influence that needs to be
              eliminated?

              And remember that it never worked right in the first place.
              The villagers now have a mess to clean up to get back to
              the same original mess.

              John Roth


              >
              > --
              > Phlip
              > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
              >
            • Phlip
              ... Are you /sure/ you re not a Republican? -- Rat http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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                > Nah. The trouble with the "silver bullet" is the unexamined
                > assumption that everything was just peachy-keen before
                > the vampire showed up. So the masked man rides in,
                > loads his trusty revolver, shoots the vampire. The villagers
                > take the body out to bury it at the crossroads with a stake
                > through its heart and the masked man rides off into the distance
                > with a cry of "Hi-yo Argent!"
                >
                > Then everything goes back the way it was, that is, great.
                > In the "silver bullet" scenario the vampire, werewolf, whatever
                > is an outside influence that's outside of the villager's competence
                > to handle. So what's the outside influence that needs to be
                > eliminated?
                >
                > And remember that it never worked right in the first place.
                > The villagers now have a mess to clean up to get back to
                > the same original mess.
                >
                > John Roth

                Are you /sure/ you're not a Republican?

                --
                Rat
                http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
              • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
                From: Phlip To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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                  From: "Phlip" <phlip2005.at.gmail.com@...>
                  To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                  <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                  Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile


                  >> Nah. The trouble with the "silver bullet" is the unexamined
                  >> assumption that everything was just peachy-keen before
                  >> the vampire showed up. So the masked man rides in,
                  >> loads his trusty revolver, shoots the vampire. The villagers
                  >> take the body out to bury it at the crossroads with a stake
                  >> through its heart and the masked man rides off into the distance
                  >> with a cry of "Hi-yo Argent!"
                  >>
                  >> Then everything goes back the way it was, that is, great.
                  >> In the "silver bullet" scenario the vampire, werewolf, whatever
                  >> is an outside influence that's outside of the villager's competence
                  >> to handle. So what's the outside influence that needs to be
                  >> eliminated?
                  >>
                  >> And remember that it never worked right in the first place.
                  >> The villagers now have a mess to clean up to get back to
                  >> the same original mess.
                  >>
                  >> John Roth
                  >
                  > Are you /sure/ you're not a Republican?

                  Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.

                  John Roth
                  >
                  > --
                  > Rat
                  > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
                  >
                • Victor
                  ... So, does it mean you prefer freedom fries to french fries? Victor ... From: yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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                    > Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.

                    So, does it mean you prefer freedom fries to french fries?

                    Victor

                    ================================

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: yahoogroups@...
                    To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:59 PM
                    Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile


                    From: "Phlip" <phlip2005.at.gmail.com@...>
                    To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                    <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                    Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:18 PM
                    Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile

                    >> Nah. The trouble with the "silver bullet" is the unexamined
                    >> assumption that everything was just peachy-keen before
                    >> the vampire showed up. So the masked man rides in,
                    >> loads his trusty revolver, shoots the vampire. The villagers
                    >> take the body out to bury it at the crossroads with a stake
                    >> through its heart and the masked man rides off into the distance
                    >> with a cry of "Hi-yo Argent!"
                    >>
                    >> Then everything goes back the way it was, that is, great.
                    >> In the "silver bullet" scenario the vampire, werewolf, whatever
                    >> is an outside influence that's outside of the villager's competence
                    >> to handle. So what's the outside influence that needs to be
                    >> eliminated?
                    >>
                    >> And remember that it never worked right in the first place.
                    >> The villagers now have a mess to clean up to get back to
                    >> the same original mess.
                    >>
                    >> John Roth
                    >
                    > Are you /sure/ you're not a Republican?

                    Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.

                    John Roth
                    >
                    > --
                    > Rat
                    > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
                    From: Victor To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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                      From: "Victor" <vmgoldberg.at.verizon.net@...>
                      To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                      <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                      Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:21 PM
                      Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile


                      >> Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.
                      >
                      > So, does it mean you prefer freedom fries to french fries?

                      Nah, just that anyone who tries to classify either my
                      religious or political beliefs is going to be really,
                      really confused.

                      John Roth
                      >
                      > Victor
                      >
                      > ================================
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: yahoogroups@...
                      > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:59 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile
                      >
                      >
                      > From: "Phlip" <phlip2005.at.gmail.com@...>
                      > To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                      > <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                      > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:18 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [XP] "No Silver Bullet" supports agile
                      >
                      > >> Nah. The trouble with the "silver bullet" is the unexamined
                      > >> assumption that everything was just peachy-keen before
                      > >> the vampire showed up. So the masked man rides in,
                      > >> loads his trusty revolver, shoots the vampire. The villagers
                      > >> take the body out to bury it at the crossroads with a stake
                      > >> through its heart and the masked man rides off into the distance
                      > >> with a cry of "Hi-yo Argent!"
                      > >>
                      > >> Then everything goes back the way it was, that is, great.
                      > >> In the "silver bullet" scenario the vampire, werewolf, whatever
                      > >> is an outside influence that's outside of the villager's competence
                      > >> to handle. So what's the outside influence that needs to be
                      > >> eliminated?
                      > >>
                      > >> And remember that it never worked right in the first place.
                      > >> The villagers now have a mess to clean up to get back to
                      > >> the same original mess.
                      > >>
                      > >> John Roth
                      > >
                      > > Are you /sure/ you're not a Republican?
                      >
                      > Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.
                      >
                      > John Roth
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Rat
                      > > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • Phlip
                      ... We d prefer to fry the French. ;-) -- Phlip http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 23, 2006
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                        Victor wrote:

                        > > Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.
                        >
                        > So, does it mean you prefer freedom fries to french fries?

                        We'd prefer to fry the French.

                        ;-)

                        --
                        Phlip
                        http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
                      • Dave Rooney
                        ... I just got back from a coaching gig in France. They don t mind pairing and like TDD. In fact, XP has led to a new verb - pairer, to pair (seriously!).
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 24, 2006
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                          On 23-Oct-06, at 11:18 PM, Phlip wrote:

                          > Victor wrote:
                          >
                          >>> Only if the French Assembly was laid out like a Mobius strip.
                          >>
                          >> So, does it mean you prefer freedom fries to french fries?
                          >
                          > We'd prefer to fry the French.
                          >

                          I just got back from a coaching gig in France. They don't mind
                          pairing and like TDD. In fact, XP has led to a new verb - pairer, to
                          pair (seriously!).

                          The people there were damned near as friendly as Americans! :)

                          Dave Rooney
                          Industrial XP Coach
                          I n d u s t r i a l L o g i c, I n c.
                          http://www.industriallogic.com
                          http://www.industrialxp.org





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Phlip
                          ... Are you indulging in the stereotype that Americans think the French are generally rude?? -- Phlip http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 24, 2006
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                            Dave Rooney wrote:

                            > I just got back from a coaching gig in France. They don't mind
                            > pairing and like TDD. In fact, XP has led to a new verb - pairer, to
                            > pair (seriously!).
                            >
                            > The people there were damned near as friendly as Americans! :)

                            Are you indulging in the stereotype that Americans think the French
                            are generally rude??

                            --
                            Phlip
                            http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
                          • William Pietri
                            ... He could be indulging the European stereotype that Americans are excessively, almost eerily friendly. William
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 24, 2006
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                              Phlip wrote:
                              > Dave Rooney wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >> I just got back from a coaching gig in France. They don't mind
                              >> pairing and like TDD. In fact, XP has led to a new verb - pairer, to
                              >> pair (seriously!).
                              >>
                              >> The people there were damned near as friendly as Americans! :)
                              >>
                              >
                              > Are you indulging in the stereotype that Americans think the French
                              > are generally rude??
                              >

                              He could be indulging the European stereotype that Americans are
                              excessively, almost eerily friendly.

                              William
                            • Dave Rooney
                              ... Not at all - I m indulging in the stereotype that Canadians are superior to those loud, obnoxious Americans and the dreadfully rude French!! :) There are
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 24, 2006
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                                On 24-Oct-06, at 10:04 AM, Phlip wrote:

                                > Dave Rooney wrote:
                                >
                                >> I just got back from a coaching gig in France. They don't mind
                                >> pairing and like TDD. In fact, XP has led to a new verb - pairer, to
                                >> pair (seriously!).
                                >>
                                >> The people there were damned near as friendly as Americans! :)
                                >
                                > Are you indulging in the stereotype that Americans think the French
                                > are generally rude??
                                >

                                Not at all - I'm indulging in the stereotype that Canadians are
                                superior to those loud, obnoxious Americans and the dreadfully rude
                                French!! :)

                                There are Americans who are indeed loud and obnoxious (like my
                                uncle!), French who are rude, and even Canadians who are polite to a
                                fault. My experience has been that the people I've encountered in
                                all 3 of those cultures are generally quite friendly and enjoyable to
                                be around. There are jerks in each culture as well. In Canada we
                                often call them "politicians".

                                Dave Rooney
                                Industrial XP Coach
                                I n d u s t r i a l L o g i c, I n c.
                                http://www.industriallogic.com
                                http://www.industrialxp.org





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                              • J. B. Rainsberger
                                ... Only a few orders of magnitude left to compete with we Canadians, then. He, Laurent, tu veux pairer avec moi sur ce tache-la?! Sounds neat. I ll try it. --
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 1, 2006
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                                  Dave Rooney wrote:

                                  > I just got back from a coaching gig in France. They don't mind
                                  > pairing and like TDD. In fact, XP has led to a new verb - pairer, to
                                  > pair (seriously!).
                                  >
                                  > The people there were damned near as friendly as Americans! :)

                                  Only a few orders of magnitude left to compete with we Canadians, then.

                                  He, Laurent, tu veux pairer avec moi sur ce tache-la?!

                                  Sounds neat. I'll try it.
                                  --
                                  J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
                                  Your guide to software craftsmanship
                                  JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
                                  2005 Gordon Pask Award for contribution Agile Software Practice
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