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Re: [XP] Blog about Google and Agile

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  • Ilja Preuss
    ... John, I can t help it - this still sounds like the typical most of us live in a waterfall world and simply have to live with it response to me. What I m
    Message 1 of 138 , Oct 1, 2006
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      yahoogroups@... schrieb:
      > From: "Ilja Preuss" <it.at.iljapreuss.de@...>
      > To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
      > <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
      > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:46 AM
      > Subject: Re: [XP] Blog about Google and Agile
      >
      >
      >> yahoogroups@... schrieb:
      >>
      >>> He thinks he's found something that's "really agile",
      >>> while what he's found is a company where the
      >>> management thinks that letting the developers do
      >>> whatever they want is going to translate into profits.
      >>>
      >>> They may or may not be right, but it has nothing
      >>> to do with the environment in which most of us
      >>> work, and likewise has nothing to do with these
      >>> activities we call "Agile".
      >> Mhh, I see you point, but...
      >>
      >> Isn't that the exact same argument people use to reject Agile - "most of
      >> us simply live in an environment where scope, time and budget are fixed
      >> - therefore Agile doesn't apply to us." Don't we tell those people that
      >> they might benefit from trying to change their environment?
      >
      > It's not an either-or situation. Fixed time, scope and budget
      > simply doesn't work; there's a huge amount of evidence to
      > that effect in terms of budget and time overruns trying to get
      > fixed scope.
      >
      > I suspect that even companies that supposedly operate that
      > way don't, in fact, operate that way. If you've got a dealer
      > show coming up, you're going to go to the show with what
      > you've got, not with what you planned to have.
      >
      > What Google has is compensation by results: you work
      > on a wildly successful project, you take home the money.
      > You don't, you don't. Most of us work in an IT department
      > somewhere that is funded either as an overhead expense
      > or on a project by project basis. That kind of organization
      > breeds bureaucracy and stuff that "has to be done" that
      > any reasonable line manager would jetison at the first
      > opportunity.

      John, I can't help it - this still sounds like the typical "most of us
      live in a waterfall world and simply have to live with it" response to me.


      What I'm getting at is that for many developers out there Agile doesn't
      fit into the environment they live - they'll have to change the
      environment to make Agile work.

      Perhaps it's the same with the "Google way"?

      Cheers, Ilja
    • Paul
      ... Of course I would. I actually meant it in the matter that many people call it a luxury that they shouldn t have until they have the money (I get that
      Message 138 of 138 , Oct 11, 2006
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        On 10/3/06, Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:

        > On 10/3/06, Paul <paultsai@...> wrote:

        > > On 10/3/06, Simon Jones <simon@...> wrote:
        > > > I doubt the mobile operator I currently work with could afford the
        > > > luxuries outlined.

        > > Well I bet Google at its beginnings couldn't either.

        > You would lose that bet.

        Of course I would. I actually meant it in the matter that many people
        call it a "luxury" that they shouldn't have until they have the money
        (I get that all the time from bosses). In fact it is not a Luxury, its
        cirtical to their business.

        --
        Paul
        Email - paultsai@...
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