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Re: [XP] Agile 2.0

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello Chris, Thanks for your email. On Saturday, July 29, 2006, at 8:28:45 PM, ... Keep digging, please, Chris ... and let us know what you find! Ron Jeffries
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 29, 2006
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      Hello Chris,

      Thanks for your email. On Saturday, July 29, 2006, at 8:28:45 PM,
      you wrote:

      > There are many other findings that can be mined out of this data, and I've
      > been playing with it for a while in Minitab. For anyone that does agile as
      > a business, this is very important stuff - it will give you insights into
      > what companies are really experiencing.

      Keep digging, please, Chris ... and let us know what you find!

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle.
      -- Bruce Lee
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello Phlip, Thanks for your email. On Saturday, July 29, 2006, at 8:41:26 PM, ... No, it has nothing to do with in . Many of these individuals and
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 29, 2006
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        Hello Phlip,

        Thanks for your email. On Saturday, July 29, 2006, at 8:41:26 PM,
        you wrote:

        > Ron Jeffries wrote:

        >> The notion of "Agile 2.0" is, in my opinion, odious in the
        >> "extreme". There are a lot of people out there pushing Agile, there
        >> are lots of training courses, lots of consultants, lots of new
        >> entrants into the market, many of whom cannot trace their
        >> participation to anyone in the original Agile lineage. That troubles
        >> me a bit.

        > Why? They aren't members of the "in" crowd?

        No, it has nothing to do with "in".

        Many of these individuals and organizations are pushing a very weak
        and limited form of "Agile, because they have only read or heard
        through the grapevine about Agile. The written word is very weak,
        which makes it very hard for someone to learn what Agile really is
        without experiencing it. Those of us who help people with this
        subject repeatedly hear the same thing from people with whom we
        work: "I didn't know THAT'S how you do it."

        The Scrum fantasy, for example, is that teams who set out to ship
        software on a regular cycle will "self organize" to do a good job of
        it. And whenever Jeff Sutherland or Ken Schwaber or another Scrum
        expert is there, by golly they do.

        I do believe that if we wait long enough, a team shipping RTF will
        have to self-organize. If it is going to happen at all, it takes a
        very long time.

        There are a lot of things out there flying the flag of Agile. Not
        all of them are.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules.
        -- Barbossa
      • Phlip
        ... Thank you for taking a real stand on Scrum. I m not sure I could have been so diplomatic. The other good news is Scrum hits Frequent Releases, so if the
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 29, 2006
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          Ron Jeffries wrote:

          > The Scrum fantasy, for example, is that teams who set out to ship
          > software on a regular cycle will "self organize" to do a good job of
          > it. And whenever Jeff Sutherland or Ken Schwaber or another Scrum
          > expert is there, by golly they do.

          Thank you for taking a real stand on Scrum. I'm not sure I could have
          been so diplomatic.

          The other good news is Scrum hits Frequent Releases, so if the team at
          least self-organizes TDD then they have the Big Two.

          --
          Phlip
          http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
        • William Pietri
          ... Does anybody have data length of iteration and length of release cycle? Those strike me as two key agile indicators and I d love data on that. I recently
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 30, 2006
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            Marco Abis wrote:
            > Scott W. Ambler has published some very
            > interesting data related to a surveys done via Dr. Dobb's Journal.
            > Questions, raw data and summary can be found at
            > http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/
            >

            Does anybody have data length of iteration and length of release cycle?
            Those strike me as two key agile indicators and I'd love data on that.

            I recently heard of an organization adopting "agile methods" that
            planned to use three-month iterations, with the first iteration just for
            "infrastructure," which was all naturally invisible to the customer. And
            this was for a web site. I hope that's an outlier, but sometimes I have
            nightmares...

            William
          • Keith Ray
            A year ago, I heard that major sw company with yearly releases was going to 3-month iterations (but still annual releases). ... -- C. Keith Ray
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 31, 2006
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              A year ago, I heard that major sw company with yearly releases was
              going to 3-month iterations (but still annual releases).

              On 7/30/06, William Pietri <william@...> wrote:
              > Marco Abis wrote:
              > > Scott W. Ambler has published some very
              > > interesting data related to a surveys done via Dr. Dobb's Journal.
              > > Questions, raw data and summary can be found at
              > > http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/
              > >
              >
              > Does anybody have data length of iteration and length of release cycle?
              > Those strike me as two key agile indicators and I'd love data on that.
              >
              > I recently heard of an organization adopting "agile methods" that
              > planned to use three-month iterations, with the first iteration just for
              > "infrastructure," which was all naturally invisible to the customer. And
              > this was for a web site. I hope that's an outlier, but sometimes I have
              > nightmares...
              >
              > William
              >
              >
              >
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              --

              C. Keith Ray
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
            • Brandon Campbell
              ... William, If you are looking at actual datapoints. My company, CompuSoft Development, does 2 week iterations, and 3 month major releases . We actually
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 31, 2006
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                On 7/31/06, William Pietri <william@...> wrote:
                >
                > Marco Abis wrote:
                > > Scott W. Ambler has published some very
                > > interesting data related to a surveys done via Dr. Dobb's Journal.
                > > Questions, raw data and summary can be found at
                > > http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/
                > >
                >
                > Does anybody have data length of iteration and length of release cycle?
                > Those strike me as two key agile indicators and I'd love data on that.
                >
                > I recently heard of an organization adopting "agile methods" that
                > planned to use three-month iterations, with the first iteration just for
                > "infrastructure," which was all naturally invisible to the customer. And
                > this was for a web site. I hope that's an outlier, but sometimes I have
                > nightmares...
                >
                > William
                >
                >
                >
                William,

                If you are looking at actual datapoints. My company, CompuSoft Development,
                does 2 week iterations, and 3 month 'major releases'. We actually provide a
                release after every iteration, in the form of an automatic update. The
                'releases' are when we create a new CD, burn it and send it to our
                customers.




                --
                Brandon Campbell
                http://www.acommonprogrammer.com/
                http://www.squidoo.com/xp/


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