Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [XP] XP certification

Expand Messages
  • Ron Jeffries
    ... I can see how those things might drive a desire for meaningful certification. But I don t see how they ll actually contribute to bringing it about. I m not
    Message 1 of 55 , Jul 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      On Wednesday, July 5, 2006, at 9:22:10 PM, yahoogroups@... wrote:

      > I personally don't think meaningful certification is going
      > to happen until there are legal consequences for having
      > incompetent people writing your software, or
      > having incompetent people managing the process.

      I can see how those things might drive a desire for meaningful
      certification. But I don't see how they'll actually contribute to
      bringing it about. I'm not even convinced there's meaningful
      certification for, say, doctors, now.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Fear is the mindkiller. --Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
    • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
      From: Sammy Larbi To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      Message 55 of 55 , Jul 10, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        From: "Sammy Larbi" <sam.at.powersource.com@...>
        To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
        <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
        Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 9:46 AM
        Subject: Re: [XP] XP certification


        > yahoogroups@... wrote:
        >> I personally don't think meaningful certification is going
        >> to happen until there are legal consequences for having
        >> incompetent people writing your software, or
        >> having incompetent people managing the process.
        >>
        >> John Roth
        >>
        > Should there be legal consequences for having nincompoops develop
        > working software on time? Or was your assumption that by definition,
        > they cannot do so? Because I think it is possible that people get
        > lucky... and I don't think they should be punished for that!

        Neither. You can develop software on time by shipping whatever
        you've got when the due date rolls around. That says nothing about
        whether it works, let alone whether it works well enough to satisfy
        a product liability lawyer, or the court when it comes to that.

        I served on a jury in a medical malpractice suit once. One of the
        things that impressed me about the opening statements from the
        lawyers representing the three defendents is that one of them
        relied on his client satisfying the SOC - the Standards of Care
        in the relevant situation. (It was settled after jury selection but
        before the trial actually began.)

        The point here is that legal liability depends on standards.
        If a product isn't allowed to waive the implied warrenty of
        merchantability, there will eventually be standards setting
        maximum allowed defect levels by product category.

        Any manager who says "ship it" at the target date when
        he knows he can't prove, in court, that the product meets the
        mandated quality measurements is a fool. He's also not
        going to be employed for very long when the product
        liability bar gets done savaging his company. Nor will
        he be employed when the insurance companies refuse
        to cover his projects because he doesn't come up to
        their standards for coverage. Etc.

        --it rolls downhill. A software company that wants
        to survive the gentle attentions of the product liability
        bar will demand that its project managers insure that
        its products meet standards. Those project managers
        will likewise demand that their developers know how
        to meet standards. In turn, students will eventually
        discover which universities have adequate courses.
        The universities will discover that they don't have
        students unless they're doing an adequate job of
        preparing them.

        John Roth


        >
        >
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.