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Re: Process Change: was RE: [XP] XPlanner...Does anyone have experience with it?

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  • Paul Beckford
    ... Hi Steve, Understood. I m all for being pragmatic. Please report back and lets us know how you get on. Paul.
    Message 1 of 2 , May 9, 2006
      Steven Ropa wrote:

      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Paul Beckford
      >Sent: Tue 5/9/2006 11:50 AM
      >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      >Cc:
      >Subject: Re: [XP] XPlanner...Does anyone have experience with it?
      >
      >
      >
      >Steven Ropa wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>>-----Original Message-----
      >>>From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      >>>[mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ilja Preuss
      >>>Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:09 AM
      >>>To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      >>>Subject: RE: [XP] XPlanner...Does anyone have experience with it?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>>In my not so humble opinion, when we think that something isn't a
      >>>>>reasonable choice, we can explore in at least two directions: what
      >>>>>other choices are available, and what could make the
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>original choice
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>>more reasonable.
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>Ah, yes, humility, a trait we programmers so often lack.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>Are you suggesting that in this specific case, more humility
      >>>would have been called for?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>Often, people's question is phrased to express which
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>exploration their
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>situation needs. Rarely do I see a response on this question that
      >>>>credits that they may have correctly, competently interpreted their
      >>>>situation's need.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>I always assume that they may have, although I admit that I
      >>>might not be good at expressing it.
      >>>
      >>>On the other hand, how often do you feel that the original
      >>>post expressed the humble possibility that they might be wrong
      >>>in their decision to need an online tool?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>Tangentially, I've spoken with more than one tool vendor who avoid
      >>>>agile conferences because they have found the environment
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>too hostile
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>for them. Since, I hope we can agree, there are many many less than
      >>>>ideal situations where tools are great aids to manage troublesome
      >>>>conditions, I find that unfortunate.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>Somehow I don't share that concern.
      >>>
      >>>Cheers, Ilja
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>Boy, I wish I was going to Minneapolis! This would be so much more fun
      >>to argue over beer! To me, its not about tone. It isn't even really
      >>about starting the replies with suggesting they try index cards first.
      >>The reason I frequent this group is to learn from other practicioners,
      >>and to once in a while contribute what I've learned from my experiences.
      >>My worry is that folks who want to learn about a particular
      >>tool/practice/hair product end up in a situation where they aren't
      >>benefitting from the list, other than to feel like there must be
      >>something wrong because in their scenario they can't use the same hair
      >>product as everyone else. So definitely, absolutely help people to
      >>understand why index cards are superior. But if they then say "I can't
      >>use index cards in my situation", we should respect that and let the
      >>thread move to the discussion of what the second best alternative is.
      >>More often, the thread becomes a discussion of how to try to alter the
      >>situation. I like the idea of helping these folks adapt to their
      >>situation rather than insisting they change the situation.
      >>
      >>Regards,
      >>Steve
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >Hi Steve,
      >
      >I hear you. My concern when I read your post was that the instigation of
      >process change was coming from outside the development team, and what
      >setting such a precident could lead to in the future.
      >
      >If you absolutely cannot use cards, and the solution must be online, why
      >not try a wiki? My problem with things like XPlanner is that they tend
      >to constrain you, forcing you to do things the tools way, whilst a wiki
      >is free format allowing you to do what ever you want, and allowing the
      >teams process to evolve.
      >
      >Are you sure that you haven't given up on your boss prematurely? From
      >the sounds of things, if you decide not to fight this battle, another
      >one is sure to follow.
      >
      >Paul.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Hi Paul,
      >
      >
      >
      >Actually my boss is great. Its the PM who I am running into difficulty with. Just for a little background, I was hired here as the director of development expressly to get Agile implemented throughout the organization. Ironically, the majority of the company has embraced it beautifully, with the exception of this one PM. As we are peers, neither can "force the issue" all of the time. I had to pick which battles to fight and which not to.
      >
      >Currently, we are using Version One. I really like it, and highly recommend it. It works for me because how it works fits how I do things. I also think the V1 team actually *gets* Agile and applies that to their product. I WAS using it as a sort of online support of the index cards, since we have distributed team members. The process change was definitely forced from the outside. My choice was to accept that change or change my organization. There are far too many good people on the team for me to give up on them.
      >
      >So yes, there are definitely more battles to fight. But I get to pick which ones to fight.
      >
      >
      >
      >STeve
      >
      >
      >
      Hi Steve,

      Understood. I'm all for being pragmatic. Please report back and lets us
      know how you get on.

      Paul.

      >
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