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Re: [XP] Hatred of index cards

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  • Julio Santos
    ... I was lucky enough to experience the opposite effect. After struggling with The Requirements and The Schedule for a few months, without getting
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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      On 5/1/06, Steven Ropa <steven.ropa@...> wrote:
      > I think that is a large part of it. There was an underlying assumption
      > of "I don't see how that could work, therefore it can't". I also saw a
      > bit of resentment because the cards were a physical, obvious repudiation
      > of their MSProject fetish.

      I was lucky enough to experience the opposite effect. After struggling
      with "The Requirements" and "The Schedule" for a few months, without
      getting anywhere, two of us introduced "The Cards". At first,
      management and the rest of the team really, were very suspicious.

      I mean, what could 3x5 cards do better than months of battling with MS
      Project and meetings? It could not work, but all we asked for was a
      couple of hours. The team wasn't going to lose much anyway. If it was
      not going to work, they would have a good reason to poke fun at us,
      and if it was going to work, we would solve the problem. It was a
      win-win situation.

      Sure enough, it worked perfectly well, and that afternoon we finally
      had a plan, and a good understanding of what we were supposed to to.
      Finally, after months of endless meetings and debates!

      The people who appreciated it the most were precisely the execs and
      the project managers.

      I think it was a lucky shot though, most of the time, the team wants
      to keep trying what's obviously not working, but this time they want
      to try it harder and with more people. (which makes it work less, but
      then it's okay, they'll add even more people and time, and so and so
      forth until they drop the project)

      But when it works, it's a thing of beauty.

      --
      Julio
    • Steven Ropa
      I m sure that happens from time to time, but there is still a large school of thought that believes the only way to do something is through project. And if
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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        I'm sure that happens from time to time, but there is still a large
        school of thought that believes the only way to do something is through
        project. And if the project fails, they obviously either didn't do it
        right, or someone failed to follow the project plan. That is the
        mentality that we(Joe and I) are dealing with. And believe me, we have
        tried to apply logic time and time again. Of course the team we are
        working with is picking up Agile so fast that I shouldn't complain.
        They are kicking butt, so I have time to let the PM's whine at me.

        Steve

        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        >[mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Ray
        >Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:26 PM
        >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [XP] Hatred of index cards
        >
        >regarding MS Project vs Index Cards, see the "sunken cost fallacy".
        >
        >On 5/1/06, banshee858 <cnett858@...> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > Then, an interesting thing happened. All of a sudden, I
        >found that
        >> > the Product Management side was really ticked off at me. After a
        >> > lot of investigation, I discovered, and I am not making this up,
        >> > that the thing that they were upset about was this wall of index
        >> > cards! They felt that the cards were unprofessional, and had
        >> > complained to my VP that it was wrong for a technology company to
        >> > use something as low tech as index cards. My VP and I
        >decided that
        >> > of all the battles to fight, index cards just weren't that high on
        >> > the list.
        >> >
        >> I never undestand this seemingly irrational behavior. Why do people
        >> who have nothing to do with the cards, hate them so much? It almost
        >> seems to me like a method of control and exercising power - "I'm so
        >> important that I can tell all YOU people how to do your job.
        > I don't
        >> care if YOU find them useful, I don't like them and I don't want to
        >> see them." It is very odd to me.
        >>
        >> Carlton
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >
        >
        >--
        >
        >C. Keith Ray
        ><http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
        ><http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
        ><http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
        >
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      • Steven Ropa
        so you re saying if President Bush had just used index cards.....???
        Message 3 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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          so you're saying if President Bush had just used index cards.....???

          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          >[mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phlip
          >Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:24 PM
          >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [XP] Hatred of index cards
          >
          >Keith Ray wrote:
          >
          >> regarding MS Project vs Index Cards, see the "sunken cost fallacy".
          >
          >Ordinarily I know better than to avoid certain political
          >issues here, but...
          >
          >...Google's first hit for that term says: "In recent speeches,
          >President Bush has offered several reasons for staying the
          >course in Iraq. One of them is the almost 2,000 Americans who
          >have already ..."
          >
          >I ain't gonna forget /that/ term soon!
          >
          >--
          > Phlip
          > http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
          >
          >
          >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
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        • Phlip
          ... Well, paying professional diplomats almost as much as Japanese elementary school teachers, so they can afford stationary, would be a start... But the
          Message 4 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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            Steven Ropa wrote:

            > so you're saying if President Bush had just used index cards.....???

            Well, paying professional diplomats almost as much as Japanese
            elementary school teachers, so they can afford stationary, would be a
            start...

            But the simple solutions don't pad appropriations bills...

            --
            Phlip
            http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!
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