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OT: Consultant Insurance?

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  • Ron Jeffries
    I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy. I m interested in whether the many
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 19, 2005
      I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability
      insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy.

      I'm interested in whether the many other consultants here carry such
      insurance, and anything else you'd care to share with me about it.

      Thanks,

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Curiosity is more powerful than skepticism.
    • William Pietri
      ... I ve never carried a policy like that directly. A few years ago, I switched to run most of my consulting income through an employer-of-record service, the
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 19, 2005
        Ron Jeffries wrote:

        >I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability
        >insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy.
        >
        >I'm interested in whether the many other consultants here carry such
        >insurance, and anything else you'd care to share with me about it.
        >
        >

        I've never carried a policy like that directly. A few years ago, I
        switched to run most of my consulting income through an
        employer-of-record service, the unfortunately named MyBizOffice:

        http://www.mybizoffice.com/

        The basic notion is that you pay 4% of your take to them as an
        administration fee; they then provide a number of services including
        invoicing, accounting, tax withholding, and, more to your interest, $2m
        of general liability insurance. You can also purchase additional
        benefits, like a 401k, medical, dental, and life insurance. You are
        nominally their W2 employee, but you continue to run your own business
        pretty much like before.

        I started using a company like this when one client, a Fortune 500
        company, decided I was too small to contract with directly. I've kept
        going because I like being able to outsource a number of the
        run-a-business tasks I hate to somebody who does it for a living. It has
        also simplified my tax situation quite a bit, which is a welcome added
        bonus.

        William
      • Keith Braithwaite
        ... I once had the notion of comparing the success rates of various approaches to building software by comparing the cost of professional liability insurance.
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 20, 2005
          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
          <ronjeffries@X...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability
          > insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy.
          >
          > I'm interested in whether the many other consultants here carry such
          > insurance, and anything else you'd care to share with me about it.
          >
          I once had the notion of comparing the success rates of various
          approaches to building software by comparing the cost of professional
          liability insurance. The idea was that if Gymnastic Programming or
          Ruck, or whatever, really were lower risk/faster/produced higher
          quality etc than, say, the Logical Combined Procedure, then the
          actuaries working out the premiums would know.

          But it turned out that, in the UK at least, you mostly just dial in
          the amount of cover you want and the premium pops up with few other
          questions asked. Bit of a shame, that.

          Keith
        • Steven Gordon
          Even if actuaries did take into account the process being used, the insurance rates would reflect both the success rate of each process as well as CYA
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 20, 2005
            Even if actuaries did take into account the process being used, the
            insurance rates would reflect both the success rate of each process as well
            as CYA characteristics of the process (such as documentation overhead,
            contractual arrangements, etc.) that would make it harder to sue. There
            would be likely be no way to separate the effects.

            On 12/20/05, Keith Braithwaite <Keith.Braithwaite@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
            > <ronjeffries@X...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability
            > > insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy.
            > >
            > > I'm interested in whether the many other consultants here carry such
            > > insurance, and anything else you'd care to share with me about it.
            > >
            > I once had the notion of comparing the success rates of various
            > approaches to building software by comparing the cost of professional
            > liability insurance. The idea was that if Gymnastic Programming or
            > Ruck, or whatever, really were lower risk/faster/produced higher
            > quality etc than, say, the Logical Combined Procedure, then the
            > actuaries working out the premiums would know.
            >
            > But it turned out that, in the UK at least, you mostly just dial in
            > the amount of cover you want and the premium pops up with few other
            > questions asked. Bit of a shame, that.
            >
            > Keith
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jhrothjr
            ... There isn t enough of it. Before the actuaries can assign premiums to risk factors, they have to have enough clear-cut examples to analyze. And there are
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 20, 2005
              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Braithwaite"
              <Keith.Braithwaite@w...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
              > <ronjeffries@X...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability
              > > insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy.
              > >
              > > I'm interested in whether the many other consultants here carry such
              > > insurance, and anything else you'd care to share with me about it.
              > >
              > I once had the notion of comparing the success rates of various
              > approaches to building software by comparing the cost of professional
              > liability insurance. The idea was that if Gymnastic Programming or
              > Ruck, or whatever, really were lower risk/faster/produced higher
              > quality etc than, say, the Logical Combined Procedure, then the
              > actuaries working out the premiums would know.
              >
              > But it turned out that, in the UK at least, you mostly just dial in
              > the amount of cover you want and the premium pops up with few other
              > questions asked. Bit of a shame, that.

              There isn't enough of it. Before the actuaries can assign premiums to
              risk factors, they have to have enough clear-cut examples to analyze.
              And there are other issues, which is why they have variable premiums
              on, say auto, but do site inspections and demand the removal of
              obvious hazards for buildings.

              John Roth

              >
              > Keith
              >
            • George Dinwiddie
              ... I think it s basic boilerplate requirements derived from a lawyer who was asked for an opinion, so he had to give one that justified his salary or fee. I
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 21, 2005
                Ron Jeffries wrote:
                > I have a client who want me to have a bunload of general liability
                > insurance, and to list them as an insured on the policy.
                >
                > I'm interested in whether the many other consultants here carry such
                > insurance, and anything else you'd care to share with me about it.

                I think it's basic boilerplate requirements derived from a lawyer who
                was asked for an opinion, so he had to give one that justified his
                salary or fee. I carry it, as it was a requirement of my current gig.
                I'm not sure whether the requirement came from the client or the
                intermediate recruiting company. I also had to get Workman's
                Compensation insurance, though as a one-man company, it doesn't actually
                cover anybody. It's a rip-off, but it's cheaper than passing up the gig
                or paying a lawyer to try to straighten it out.

                - George
              • Ron Jeffries
                ... Workman s comp ... now that s really weird! Thanks ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com If you re not throwing some gravel once in a while, you re not
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 21, 2005
                  On Wednesday, December 21, 2005, at 9:05:45 PM, George Dinwiddie wrote:

                  > I think it's basic boilerplate requirements derived from a lawyer who
                  > was asked for an opinion, so he had to give one that justified his
                  > salary or fee. I carry it, as it was a requirement of my current gig.
                  > I'm not sure whether the requirement came from the client or the
                  > intermediate recruiting company. I also had to get Workman's
                  > Compensation insurance, though as a one-man company, it doesn't actually
                  > cover anybody. It's a rip-off, but it's cheaper than passing up the gig
                  > or paying a lawyer to try to straighten it out.

                  Workman's comp ... now that's really weird!

                  Thanks ...

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  If you're not throwing some gravel once in a while,
                  you're not using the whole road.
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