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Re: [XP] Story Breakdown

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... i agree entirely ... but it s an interactive process between someone who knows what is needed and someone who is in touch with how it could be built. And
    Message 1 of 35 , Nov 4, 2005
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      On Friday, November 4, 2005, at 1:56:31 PM, Steven J. Owens wrote:

      > On Fri, Nov 04, 2005 at 12:03:19AM -0800, Ron Jeffries wrote:
      >> I'm having trouble getting into this. I think it's because I'm not
      >> clear on what I'm being asked to do.

      > Sorry, I guess since I asked, I should clarify. I think that the
      > general topic of problematic stories and breaking stories down has
      > come up often enough the past few weeks that it might be useful to
      > walk through the process.

      i agree entirely ... but it's an interactive process between someone
      who knows what is needed and someone who is in touch with how it
      could be built. And it's a thing that is done to a story ...

      > Since you had specifically commented about breaking down a
      > particular hypothetical story ("steer the car") differently, I was
      > suggesting that it would be worthwhile to some of us to hear how you
      > would do that, for that story. However, I would prefer even more to
      > have somebody post a real story that they've had problems
      > accomplishing, and seeing it diagnosed and (if appropriate)
      > re-structured.

      ... and "steer the car" isn't a story. A story is a thing with
      business value that can be implemented in one iteration. "Steer the
      car" doesn't sound quite that easy to me.

      > I think it'd be most useful to do this with a "live" example,
      > preferably one from one of the posters who has had some problems with
      > overly-large stories (you guys feel free to chime in here :-), rather
      > than an imagined, arbitrary example. Not only would this make it
      > relevant to the poster in question, I think it would also make it
      > relevant to the list members. First because we'd know it's a
      > real-life problem. Second, because the surrounding context would give
      > us a depth of detail that would make the example come alive.

      OK ... what I'm thinking isn't about making stories /smaller/ so
      much as about breaking stories down, not into technical tasks, but
      in to micro-story tasks.

      > The bowling game, by the way, really doesn't seem to "click" for
      > me, maybe because I've only bowledge two or three times in my life,
      > maybe because its' too vague, I don't know. The same is true for the
      > coffee shop exercise, and I've spent the vast majority of my social
      > time over the past ten years in coffee shops.

      For me, bowling doesn't work because it's too small. I've not done
      the coffee shop but if the exercise can be done in a day ... I'm not
      sure whether the trick can be done to it.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people
      always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can
      become great." -- Mark Twain.
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... i agree entirely ... but it s an interactive process between someone who knows what is needed and someone who is in touch with how it could be built. And
      Message 35 of 35 , Nov 4, 2005
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        On Friday, November 4, 2005, at 1:56:31 PM, Steven J. Owens wrote:

        > On Fri, Nov 04, 2005 at 12:03:19AM -0800, Ron Jeffries wrote:
        >> I'm having trouble getting into this. I think it's because I'm not
        >> clear on what I'm being asked to do.

        > Sorry, I guess since I asked, I should clarify. I think that the
        > general topic of problematic stories and breaking stories down has
        > come up often enough the past few weeks that it might be useful to
        > walk through the process.

        i agree entirely ... but it's an interactive process between someone
        who knows what is needed and someone who is in touch with how it
        could be built. And it's a thing that is done to a story ...

        > Since you had specifically commented about breaking down a
        > particular hypothetical story ("steer the car") differently, I was
        > suggesting that it would be worthwhile to some of us to hear how you
        > would do that, for that story. However, I would prefer even more to
        > have somebody post a real story that they've had problems
        > accomplishing, and seeing it diagnosed and (if appropriate)
        > re-structured.

        ... and "steer the car" isn't a story. A story is a thing with
        business value that can be implemented in one iteration. "Steer the
        car" doesn't sound quite that easy to me.

        > I think it'd be most useful to do this with a "live" example,
        > preferably one from one of the posters who has had some problems with
        > overly-large stories (you guys feel free to chime in here :-), rather
        > than an imagined, arbitrary example. Not only would this make it
        > relevant to the poster in question, I think it would also make it
        > relevant to the list members. First because we'd know it's a
        > real-life problem. Second, because the surrounding context would give
        > us a depth of detail that would make the example come alive.

        OK ... what I'm thinking isn't about making stories /smaller/ so
        much as about breaking stories down, not into technical tasks, but
        in to micro-story tasks.

        > The bowling game, by the way, really doesn't seem to "click" for
        > me, maybe because I've only bowledge two or three times in my life,
        > maybe because its' too vague, I don't know. The same is true for the
        > coffee shop exercise, and I've spent the vast majority of my social
        > time over the past ten years in coffee shops.

        For me, bowling doesn't work because it's too small. I've not done
        the coffee shop but if the exercise can be done in a day ... I'm not
        sure whether the trick can be done to it.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people
        always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can
        become great." -- Mark Twain.
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