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Re: [XP] XP in ERP and DataWarehousing projects

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  • Steven J. Owens
    ... Not to sound too sardonic, but isn t this the group where people quite frequently tell other people if you re not doing all of the practices, you re not
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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      On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 12:49:07PM -0400, Ron Jeffries wrote:
      > On Thursday, October 27, 2005, at 10:51:20 AM, SherlockSridhar wrote:
      > >> Is test automation the only XP practice?
      >
      > > No, but this was his strongest point of concern. He could relate to
      > > Release and Iteration Planning concepts, Simple design and pair
      > > programming. Refactoring was not much applicable, but TDD [Test
      > > Automation] and CI seem to be difficult to practice.
      >
      > I'm just wondering why you'd suggest that all of XP was inapplicable
      > because a few practices were not applicable.

      Not to sound too sardonic, but isn't this the group where people
      quite frequently tell other people "if you're not doing all of the
      practices, you're not doing XP"?

      Okay, okay, I know it's _really_ more like "if you didn't try XP
      with all of the XP practices then you can't conclude XP is broken
      because your project failed", but I couldn't resist the cheap shot
      :-). More usefully, maybe this topic would make a good case study for
      applying XP. Come to think of it, maybe it would be a good idea to
      start collecting case studies of applying XP, particularly to odd
      situations where people have difficulty imagining how to apply certain
      practices. Even better, examining failure modes might help people
      understand where, how and why XP works.

      --
      Steven J. Owens
      puff@...

      "I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong,
      declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and
      this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read.
      Take it all with a grain of salt." - http://darksleep.com/notablog
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... Mr Beck has suggested that the way to get to XP is to pick your biggest problem, solve it in the XP way, rinse, repeat. So incremental XP is certainly
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 2005
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        On Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 8:22:36 AM, Steven J. Owens wrote:

        > Not to sound too sardonic, but isn't this the group where people
        > quite frequently tell other people "if you're not doing all of the
        > practices, you're not doing XP"?

        > Okay, okay, I know it's _really_ more like "if you didn't try XP
        > with all of the XP practices then you can't conclude XP is broken
        > because your project failed", but I couldn't resist the cheap shot
        > :-). More usefully, maybe this topic would make a good case study for
        > applying XP. Come to think of it, maybe it would be a good idea to
        > start collecting case studies of applying XP, particularly to odd
        > situations where people have difficulty imagining how to apply certain
        > practices. Even better, examining failure modes might help people
        > understand where, how and why XP works.

        Mr Beck has suggested that the way to get to XP is to pick your
        biggest problem, solve it in the XP way, rinse, repeat. So
        incremental XP is certainly canon.

        I agree that failure modes seem interesting ... although the ones I
        see are all sadly the same.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        You do ill if you praise, but worse if you censure,
        what you do not understand. --Leonardo da Vinci
      • SherlockSridhar
        But I always believed that some of the practices atleast are so closely interlinked that you have to have suitable alternative practices if you don t do all of
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 3, 2005
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          But I always believed that some of the practices atleast are so closely
          interlinked that you have to have suitable alternative practices if you
          don't do all of them together.

          For example, if I do incremental releases, without refactoring and a lot
          of automated designs, what would eventually happen to the code? Add a
          lack of Continuous Integration and I can see the pit to which the
          project is heading.

          On the other hand, if I don't do pair programming, but review everyday
          and ensure that no unreviewed code gets checked in [even if it passes
          all tests], I am still following the principles of XP.

          Regards
          Sridhar


          On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:43:18 -0800, "Ron Jeffries"
          <ronjeffries@...> said:
          >
          > Mr Beck has suggested that the way to get to XP is to pick your
          > biggest problem, solve it in the XP way, rinse, repeat. So
          > incremental XP is certainly canon.
          >
          > I agree that failure modes seem interesting ... although the ones I
          > see are all sadly the same.
          >
          > Ron Jeffries
          > www.XProgramming.com
          > You do ill if you praise, but worse if you censure,
          > what you do not understand. --Leonardo da Vinci
          >
          >
          >
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          Regards
          Sridhar
          sherlocksridhar@...
          Sherlocksridhar.blogspot.com
          -----------------------------
          "A lot of preconceptions can be avoided by simply trying them out" - Bruce Eckel

          --
          http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
          love email again
        • Kent Beck
          If I want to improve my own performance, I find it more helpful to examine how things work than to study failures. This mindset is shared by a process called
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 8, 2005
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            If I want to improve my own performance, I find it more helpful to examine
            how things work than to study failures. This mindset is shared by a process
            called Appreciative Inquiry (check out "The Thin Book of Appreciative
            Inquiry" for more details). I have had excellent results applying
            Appreciative Inquiry and XP together, both for my own practice and that of
            teams.

            Kent Beck
            Three Rivers Institute

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Jeffries
            > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:43 PM
            > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [XP] XP in ERP and DataWarehousing projects
            >
            >
            > Mr Beck has suggested that the way to get to XP is to pick your
            > biggest problem, solve it in the XP way, rinse, repeat. So
            > incremental XP is certainly canon.
            >
            > I agree that failure modes seem interesting ... although the ones I
            > see are all sadly the same.
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