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Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)

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  • Victor
    I would like for the administrators of this list to consider the exportation of all the accumulated articles to GMane. That would give a nice alternative way
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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      I would like for the administrators of this list to consider the exportation
      of all the accumulated articles to GMane. That would give a nice
      alternative way of looking at them. Also, for those of us that keep the
      history in our computers would help release a few gigabytes from our hard
      drives.

      Victor

      =======================================================

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Tim Haughton" <timhaughton@...>
      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:08 AM
      Subject: [XP] Re: searching the mailing list


      > In addition, thanks for the GMane thing. I'd never heard of it, I too much
      > prefer usenet to mailing lists, this might just be cool. By the way, if
      this
      > post doesn't show up, I'll know GMane doesn't work :)
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Tim
      >
      > "Fisher, Lee" <fisher@...> wrote in message
      > news:2B93E3665048A54288C85BB9134951FB1B0C46@......
      > > Keith wrote:
      > > >(I'm sure
      > > >this has come up on the group before, if only searching here didn't
      > > >involve so much manual intevention...)
      > >
      > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "manual intervention", but you
      > probably mean the unwieldyness of yahoo's interface?
      > > People might have better luck searching the archives on gmane.
      > >
      > > You can also read there, get RSS feeds, etc.
      > > Take a look at
      > > http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming
      > >
      > > Lee
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      > >
      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      > >
      > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      >
      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... How would that be done? Do you mean files, or all messages? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Will Turner: This is either madness or brilliance. Captain
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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        On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 9:45:29 AM, Victor wrote:

        > I would like for the administrators of this list to consider the exportation
        > of all the accumulated articles to GMane. That would give a nice
        > alternative way of looking at them. Also, for those of us that keep the
        > history in our computers would help release a few gigabytes from our hard
        > drives.

        How would that be done? Do you mean files, or all messages?

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Will Turner: This is either madness or brilliance.
        Captain Jack Sparrow: It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide.
      • Victor
        They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php , Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be limited by reality. It will be informational
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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          They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,

          Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be limited by reality.
          It will be informational to also explore the links in the left side menu.

          Going to this address
          http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
          will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and its organization.

          Victor

          =====================================================

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>
          To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 10:20 AM
          Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


          > On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 9:45:29 AM, Victor wrote:
          >
          > > I would like for the administrators of this list to consider the
          exportation
          > > of all the accumulated articles to GMane. That would give a nice
          > > alternative way of looking at them. Also, for those of us that keep the
          > > history in our computers would help release a few gigabytes from our
          hard
          > > drives.
          >
          > How would that be done? Do you mean files, or all messages?
          >
          > Ron Jeffries
          > www.XProgramming.com
          > Will Turner: This is either madness or brilliance.
          > Captain Jack Sparrow: It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide.
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Ron Jeffries
          ... I don t see any practical way to move this group over there. Speaking just for me, I don t have any objection to having it done ... as long as all the new
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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            On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 11:30:49 AM, Victor wrote:

            > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,

            > Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be limited by reality.
            > It will be informational to also explore the links in the left side menu.

            > Going to this address
            > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
            > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and its organization.

            I don't see any practical way to move this group over there.
            Speaking just for me, I don't have any objection to having it done
            ... as long as all the new stuff would show up here.

            But I don't grok how this whole gmane thing works. I'd like to hear
            some discussion ...

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            Steering is more important than speed,
            in driving and in software development.
          • Victor
            My impression is that what may work well is not necessarily to move the whole group there, but to have it as a mirror transforming site. Let s say from now
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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              My impression is that what may work well is not necessarily to move the
              whole group there, but to have it as a mirror transforming site. Let's say
              from now on, all new messages would go to the usual places and also there.

              This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
              sequencing and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in their own
              computers after reading or deciding not to read them.

              Probably it would be too arduous to transfer all the history at once, but
              maybe it would be possible to transfer them a little at a time.

              Victor

              ========================================

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>
              To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:56 PM
              Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


              > On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 11:30:49 AM, Victor wrote:
              >
              > > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
              >
              > > Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be limited by
              reality.
              > > It will be informational to also explore the links in the left side
              menu.
              >
              > > Going to this address
              > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
              > > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and its
              organization.
              >
              > I don't see any practical way to move this group over there.
              > Speaking just for me, I don't have any objection to having it done
              > ... as long as all the new stuff would show up here.
              >
              > But I don't grok how this whole gmane thing works. I'd like to hear
              > some discussion ...
              >
              > Ron Jeffries
              > www.XProgramming.com
              > Steering is more important than speed,
              > in driving and in software development.
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Loll, Michael F
              ... sequencing ... after ... Maybe I am missing something, but can t you do this already by going to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ ? --Mike
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                >This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
                sequencing
                >and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in their own computers
                after
                >reading or deciding not to read them.

                Maybe I am missing something, but can't you do this already by going to
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ ?

                --Mike
              • Victor
                ... Yes, you are. :-) What GMane does is to hierarchically by date bunch messages by subject, like in Usenet news groups. In Yahoo the messages are
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                  > Maybe I am missing something, but can't you do this already by going to
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ ?

                  Yes, you are. :-)

                  What GMane does is to hierarchically by date bunch messages by subject, like
                  in Usenet news groups. In Yahoo the messages are organized by date in the
                  same way as we receive them in our computers (more or less). That's the
                  reason I gave the address
                  http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
                  So people can get a first impression by themselves.

                  Victor

                  ==============================================
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Loll, Michael F" <LollMF@...>
                  To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:12 PM
                  Subject: RE: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


                  > >This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
                  > sequencing
                  > >and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in their own computers
                  > after
                  > >reading or deciding not to read them.
                  >
                  > Maybe I am missing something, but can't you do this already by going to
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ ?
                  >
                  > --Mike
                  >
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  >
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                  > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Lee Fisher
                  Victor, The messages are already all going to gmane. Additionally I can see the history going back to March 15, 2002. So the first few years may not be there,
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                    Victor,
                    The messages are already all going to gmane.
                    Additionally I can see the history going back to March 15, 2002. So
                    the first few years may not be there, but there is certainly a
                    significant amount of history there. I'm not sure if more would be
                    required.
                    Lee

                    --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Victor"
                    <vmgoldberg@v...> wrote:
                    >
                    > My impression is that what may work well is not necessarily to
                    move the
                    > whole group there, but to have it as a mirror transforming site.
                    Let's say
                    > from now on, all new messages would go to the usual places and
                    also there.
                    >
                    > This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
                    > sequencing and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in
                    their own
                    > computers after reading or deciding not to read them.
                    >
                    > Probably it would be too arduous to transfer all the history at
                    once, but
                    > maybe it would be possible to transfer them a little at a time.
                    >
                    > Victor
                    >
                    > ========================================
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@X...>
                    > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:56 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing
                    list)
                    >
                    >
                    > > On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 11:30:49 AM, Victor wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
                    > >
                    > > > Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be
                    limited by
                    > reality.
                    > > > It will be informational to also explore the links in the left
                    side
                    > menu.
                    > >
                    > > > Going to this address
                    > > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%
                    2dprogramming
                    > > > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and its
                    > organization.
                    > >
                    > > I don't see any practical way to move this group over there.
                    > > Speaking just for me, I don't have any objection to having it
                    done
                    > > ... as long as all the new stuff would show up here.
                    > >
                    > > But I don't grok how this whole gmane thing works. I'd like to
                    hear
                    > > some discussion ...
                    > >
                    > > Ron Jeffries
                    > > www.XProgramming.com
                    > > Steering is more important than speed,
                    > > in driving and in software development.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@e...
                    > >
                    > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@e...
                    > >
                    > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Victor
                    Interesting, the earliest I can see 23 Oct 2005. Is there a special trick to get to earlier dates? Yes, I just noted that our messages are going there. Victor
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                      Interesting, the earliest I can see 23 Oct 2005.
                      Is there a special trick to get to earlier dates?

                      Yes, I just noted that our messages are going there.

                      Victor

                      ===============================================

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Lee Fisher" <fisher@...>
                      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 4:00 PM
                      Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


                      > Victor,
                      > The messages are already all going to gmane.
                      > Additionally I can see the history going back to March 15, 2002. So
                      > the first few years may not be there, but there is certainly a
                      > significant amount of history there. I'm not sure if more would be
                      > required.
                      > Lee
                      >
                      > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Victor"
                      > <vmgoldberg@v...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > My impression is that what may work well is not necessarily to
                      > move the
                      > > whole group there, but to have it as a mirror transforming site.
                      > Let's say
                      > > from now on, all new messages would go to the usual places and
                      > also there.
                      > >
                      > > This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
                      > > sequencing and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in
                      > their own
                      > > computers after reading or deciding not to read them.
                      > >
                      > > Probably it would be too arduous to transfer all the history at
                      > once, but
                      > > maybe it would be possible to transfer them a little at a time.
                      > >
                      > > Victor
                      > >
                      > > ========================================
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@X...>
                      > > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:56 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing
                      > list)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 11:30:49 AM, Victor wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
                      > > >
                      > > > > Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be
                      > limited by
                      > > reality.
                      > > > > It will be informational to also explore the links in the left
                      > side
                      > > menu.
                      > > >
                      > > > > Going to this address
                      > > > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%
                      > 2dprogramming
                      > > > > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and its
                      > > organization.
                      > > >
                      > > > I don't see any practical way to move this group over there.
                      > > > Speaking just for me, I don't have any objection to having it
                      > done
                      > > > ... as long as all the new stuff would show up here.
                      > > >
                      > > > But I don't grok how this whole gmane thing works. I'd like to
                      > hear
                      > > > some discussion ...
                      > > >
                      > > > Ron Jeffries
                      > > > www.XProgramming.com
                      > > > Steering is more important than speed,
                      > > > in driving and in software development.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@e...
                      > > >
                      > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@e...
                      > > >
                      > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                      >
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Ron Jeffries
                      ... I don t see how to transfer them /at all/, but maybe I m missing something. I d be interested to hear what the other moderators have to say about the idea
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                        On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 2:04:40 PM, Victor wrote:

                        > My impression is that what may work well is not necessarily to move the
                        > whole group there, but to have it as a mirror transforming site. Let's say
                        > from now on, all new messages would go to the usual places and also there.

                        > This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
                        > sequencing and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in their own
                        > computers after reading or deciding not to read them.

                        > Probably it would be too arduous to transfer all the history at once, but
                        > maybe it would be possible to transfer them a little at a time.

                        I don't see how to transfer them /at all/, but maybe I'm missing
                        something. I'd be interested to hear what the other moderators have
                        to say about the idea ...

                        Ron Jeffries
                        www.XProgramming.com
                        Know what I pray for? The strength to change what I can, the inability to
                        accept what I can't and the incapacity to tell the difference. --Calvin and Hobbes
                      • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
                        From: Victor To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                          From: "Victor" <vmgoldberg.at.verizon.net@...>
                          To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                          <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                          Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 1:57 PM
                          Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


                          >> Maybe I am missing something, but can't you do this already by going to
                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ ?
                          >
                          > Yes, you are. :-)
                          >
                          > What GMane does is to hierarchically by date bunch messages by subject,
                          > like
                          > in Usenet news groups. In Yahoo the messages are organized by date in the
                          > same way as we receive them in our computers (more or less). That's the
                          > reason I gave the address
                          > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
                          > So people can get a first impression by themselves.

                          Gmane may well be useful, but I, for one, find that simply reading
                          the messages as they come across to be the most effective: I don't
                          read by thread. When I do want to go look up earlier, I go to
                          Yahoo to do it. It's infreqent enough, and Firefox's multiple tabs
                          are convenient enough, that it's no big deal.

                          Also, Tim Haughton's post a bit earlier came across in a way that
                          IE interpreted as a newsgroup post; it would not allow me to reply
                          to it in an email group, it wanted a newsgroup. If I want to reply
                          to something like that I have to go into Yahoo to do it, I can't
                          do it from my mail client. Not nice.

                          John Roth
                          >
                          > Victor
                          >
                          > ==============================================
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Loll, Michael F" <LollMF@...>
                          > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:12 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)
                          >
                          >
                          >> >This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the message
                          >> sequencing
                          >> >and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in their own computers
                          >> after
                          >> >reading or deciding not to read them.
                          >>
                          >> Maybe I am missing something, but can't you do this already by going to
                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ ?
                          >>
                          >> --Mike
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                          >>
                          >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                          >>
                          >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Lee Fisher
                          Victor there is the drop down to the right with the number 1 in it. If you choose there, you can see different pages. The last few don t seem to work, but I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                            Victor there is the drop down to the right with the number 1 in it.
                            If you choose there, you can see different pages. The last few
                            don't seem to work, but I could go down to #674 or so.

                            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Victor"
                            <vmgoldberg@v...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Interesting, the earliest I can see 23 Oct 2005.
                            > Is there a special trick to get to earlier dates?
                            >
                            > Yes, I just noted that our messages are going there.
                            >
                            > Victor
                            >
                            > ===============================================
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Lee Fisher" <fisher@s...>
                            > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 4:00 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing
                            list)
                            >
                            >
                            > > Victor,
                            > > The messages are already all going to gmane.
                            > > Additionally I can see the history going back to March 15,
                            2002. So
                            > > the first few years may not be there, but there is certainly a
                            > > significant amount of history there. I'm not sure if more would
                            be
                            > > required.
                            > > Lee
                            > >
                            > > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Victor"
                            > > <vmgoldberg@v...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > My impression is that what may work well is not necessarily to
                            > > move the
                            > > > whole group there, but to have it as a mirror transforming
                            site.
                            > > Let's say
                            > > > from now on, all new messages would go to the usual places and
                            > > also there.
                            > > >
                            > > > This way people will have alternate ways of looking at the
                            message
                            > > > sequencing and feel more comfortable deleting the messages in
                            > > their own
                            > > > computers after reading or deciding not to read them.
                            > > >
                            > > > Probably it would be too arduous to transfer all the history at
                            > > once, but
                            > > > maybe it would be possible to transfer them a little at a time.
                            > > >
                            > > > Victor
                            > > >
                            > > > ========================================
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@X...>
                            > > > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:56 PM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing
                            > > list)
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 11:30:49 AM, Victor wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be
                            > > limited by
                            > > > reality.
                            > > > > > It will be informational to also explore the links in the
                            left
                            > > side
                            > > > menu.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Going to this address
                            > > > > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%
                            > > 2dprogramming
                            > > > > > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and
                            its
                            > > > organization.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I don't see any practical way to move this group over there.
                            > > > > Speaking just for me, I don't have any objection to having it
                            > > done
                            > > > > ... as long as all the new stuff would show up here.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > But I don't grok how this whole gmane thing works. I'd like
                            to
                            > > hear
                            > > > > some discussion ...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Ron Jeffries
                            > > > > www.XProgramming.com
                            > > > > Steering is more important than speed,
                            > > > > in driving and in software development.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@e...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@e...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@e...
                            > >
                            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@e...
                            > >
                            > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Ian Collins
                            ... Use the little number select, 676 is the oldest page. Ian
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 28, 2005
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                              Victor wrote:

                              >Interesting, the earliest I can see 23 Oct 2005.
                              >Is there a special trick to get to earlier dates?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              Use the little number select, 676 is the oldest page.

                              Ian
                            • Victor
                              ... Different people have different preferences. The value of the GMane option is that it offers an alternative view to the message set. Those that find it
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 29, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > Gmane may well be useful, but I, for one, find that simply reading
                                > the messages as they come across to be the most effective: I don't
                                > read by thread. When I do want to go look up earlier, I go to
                                > Yahoo to do it. It's infreqent enough, and Firefox's multiple tabs
                                > are convenient enough, that it's no big deal.

                                Different people have different preferences. The value of the GMane option is
                                that it offers an alternative view to the message set. Those that find it
                                useless, just don't need to use it.

                                > Also, Tim Haughton's post a bit earlier came across in a way that
                                > IE interpreted as a newsgroup post; it would not allow me to reply
                                > to it in an email group, it wanted a newsgroup. If I want to reply
                                > to something like that I have to go into Yahoo to do it, I can't
                                > do it from my mail client. Not nice.

                                It's not clear to me what the intention of the above paragraph is, but if you
                                want to respond using GMane, there are two drop-down menues on the top-right
                                corner; in the rightmost, with the text "-Action-", select "Followup" to reply.
                                I am sending this message using that option.

                                Victor
                              • Tim Haughton
                                ... I m not sure why that would happen, a bit more investigation is required. I made that post using Outlook Express using GMane s NNTP server. When the post
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 29, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On 28/10/05, yahoogroups@... <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Also, Tim Haughton's post a bit earlier came across in a way that
                                  > IE interpreted as a newsgroup post; it would not allow me to reply
                                  > to it in an email group, it wanted a newsgroup. If I want to reply
                                  > to something like that I have to go into Yahoo to do it, I can't
                                  > do it from my mail client. Not nice.

                                  I'm not sure why that would happen, a bit more investigation is required. I
                                  made 'that' post using Outlook Express using GMane's NNTP server. When the
                                  post showed up on my GMail account, the headers seemed to be consistent with
                                  an email, and GMail seems quite happy with replying to the post by email.
                                  Personally, I prefer Usenet to mailing lists. I think Yahoo's web interface
                                  is particulary horrid. Google's Groups interface is nice and snappy, as
                                  you'd expect. I'd even prefer to see the group moved there.
                                  Cheers,
                                  Tim Haughton


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Rob Sanheim
                                  ... I ve used gmane quite a bit for searching lists I m not subscribed to or just recently subscribed to. The yahoo groups seach function is all but useless
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Oct 29, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On 10/29/05, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
                                    > Different people have different preferences. The value of the GMane option is
                                    > that it offers an alternative view to the message set. Those that find it
                                    > useless, just don't need to use it.

                                    I've used gmane quite a bit for searching lists I'm not subscribed to
                                    or just recently subscribed to. The yahoo groups seach function is
                                    all but useless for high-traffic lists, as you can only search within
                                    a small subset of messages at a time. Gmane has a much more powerful
                                    search function, including all of a list, multiple lists at a time,
                                    date ranges, etc.

                                    - Rob
                                    --
                                    http://www.robsanheim.com/
                                  • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
                                    From: Victor To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Oct 29, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      From: "Victor" <vmgoldberg.at.verizon.net@...>
                                      To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                                      <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                                      Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:52 AM
                                      Subject: [XP] Re: Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


                                      >> Gmane may well be useful, but I, for one, find that simply reading
                                      >> the messages as they come across to be the most effective: I don't
                                      >> read by thread. When I do want to go look up earlier, I go to
                                      >> Yahoo to do it. It's infreqent enough, and Firefox's multiple tabs
                                      >> are convenient enough, that it's no big deal.
                                      >
                                      > Different people have different preferences. The value of the GMane
                                      > option is
                                      > that it offers an alternative view to the message set. Those that find it
                                      > useless, just don't need to use it.
                                      >
                                      >> Also, Tim Haughton's post a bit earlier came across in a way that
                                      >> IE interpreted as a newsgroup post; it would not allow me to reply
                                      >> to it in an email group, it wanted a newsgroup. If I want to reply
                                      >> to something like that I have to go into Yahoo to do it, I can't
                                      >> do it from my mail client. Not nice.
                                      >
                                      > It's not clear to me what the intention of the above paragraph is, but if
                                      > you
                                      > want to respond using GMane, there are two drop-down menues on the
                                      > top-right
                                      > corner; in the rightmost, with the text "-Action-", select "Followup" to
                                      > reply.
                                      > I am sending this message using that option.

                                      I don't want to respond using GMane. I want to respond to the
                                      Yahoo group that _my_ mail feed comes from. While I'm quite well
                                      aware that different people have different preferences, Gmane doesn't
                                      seem to have anything for _me_ except an additional layer of complexity
                                      and a bad case of "if you can't play by my rules, you can't play."

                                      John Roth
                                      >
                                      > Victor
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                                      >
                                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                      > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                                      >
                                      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
                                      From: Tim Haughton To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Oct 29, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        From: "Tim Haughton" <timhaughton.at.gmail.com@...>
                                        To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                                        <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                                        Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 5:01 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion (was: searching the mailing list)


                                        > On 28/10/05, yahoogroups@... <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Also, Tim Haughton's post a bit earlier came across in a way that
                                        >> IE interpreted as a newsgroup post; it would not allow me to reply
                                        >> to it in an email group, it wanted a newsgroup. If I want to reply
                                        >> to something like that I have to go into Yahoo to do it, I can't
                                        >> do it from my mail client. Not nice.
                                        >
                                        > I'm not sure why that would happen, a bit more investigation is required.
                                        > I
                                        > made 'that' post using Outlook Express using GMane's NNTP server. When the
                                        > post showed up on my GMail account, the headers seemed to be consistent
                                        > with
                                        > an email, and GMail seems quite happy with replying to the post by email.
                                        > Personally, I prefer Usenet to mailing lists. I think Yahoo's web
                                        > interface
                                        > is particulary horrid. Google's Groups interface is nice and snappy, as
                                        > you'd expect. I'd even prefer to see the group moved there.

                                        It happens because something in the message makes it look like it
                                        was a newsgroup message, and IE is stupid enough to think it is
                                        a newsgroup message, even when it came in via e-mail and is in
                                        an e-mail folder.

                                        So it displays it as a newsgroup message in the list, totally ignores it
                                        while forwarding through the list, and wants to send replies to a
                                        newsgroup server to which I am not subscribed.

                                        Not nice.
                                        > Cheers,
                                        > Tim Haughton
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                                        >
                                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                                        >
                                        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Jeff Grigg
                                        ... It s a nice interface. Better, in some ways that Yahoo s interface. But, in my first impression, I found that I couldn t navigate up and down threads
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Oct 30, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- "Victor" <vmgoldberg@v...> wrote:
                                          > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
                                          > [...]
                                          >
                                          > Going to this address
                                          > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
                                          > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there,
                                          > and its organization.

                                          It's a nice interface. Better, in some ways that Yahoo's
                                          interface. But, in my first impression, I found that I couldn't
                                          navigate up and down threads once I read a message outside of the
                                          thread mode view. This is something I can do with the Yahoo
                                          interface.

                                          And anyway...
                                          Why would we want to "move" this list there?
                                          And what would it mean to do this? (...to "move" the list.)

                                          Gmane is not a discussion list server; it's a mirror.

                                          And (and "so...") this list is "already there." What would we need
                                          or want to "move?" If you want to use gmane, please feel free to do
                                          so. ;->



                                          Funny...
                                          They call the Yahoo "extremeprogramming"
                                          group "gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming". I wonder if
                                          people would confuse this with the "news:comp.software.extreme-
                                          programming" list. I know I did, for a few minutes.

                                          (And if you want to take a quick look at the usenet XP discussion
                                          list, I suggest the Google interface:
                                          http://groups.google.com/group/comp.software.extreme-programming or
                                          http://tinyurl.com/d59xm Be aware: That list hasn't always been as
                                          focused or civil as this one. ;-)
                                        • Victor
                                          ... My impression is that there is no need to do anything. Messages are already going there, and they have some 3 years of messages. ... I didn t experience
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Oct 30, 2005
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                                            > Why would we want to "move" this list there?
                                            > And what would it mean to do this? (...to "move" the list.)

                                            My impression is that there is no need to do anything. Messages are already
                                            going there, and they have some 3 years of messages.

                                            > ... But, in my first impression, I found that I couldn't
                                            > navigate up and down threads once I read a message outside of the
                                            > thread mode view. This is something I can do with the Yahoo
                                            > interface.

                                            I didn't experience such a problem yet. This could be because I use a
                                            muti-tabbed browser, like Firefox. So, when I look at individual messages I
                                            open a new tab and I keep the threaded order in the original tab. I need to
                                            experiment more and get back to you.

                                            Victor

                                            ==============================================

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Jeff Grigg" <jeffgrigg@...>
                                            To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:18 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion of moving the group


                                            > --- "Victor" <vmgoldberg@v...> wrote:
                                            > > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
                                            > > [...]
                                            > >
                                            > > Going to this address
                                            > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
                                            > > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there,
                                            > > and its organization.
                                            >
                                            > It's a nice interface. Better, in some ways that Yahoo's
                                            > interface. But, in my first impression, I found that I couldn't
                                            > navigate up and down threads once I read a message outside of the
                                            > thread mode view. This is something I can do with the Yahoo
                                            > interface.
                                            >
                                            > And anyway...
                                            > Why would we want to "move" this list there?
                                            > And what would it mean to do this? (...to "move" the list.)
                                            >
                                            > Gmane is not a discussion list server; it's a mirror.
                                            >
                                            > And (and "so...") this list is "already there." What would we need
                                            > or want to "move?" If you want to use gmane, please feel free to do
                                            > so. ;->
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Funny...
                                            > They call the Yahoo "extremeprogramming"
                                            > group "gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming". I wonder if
                                            > people would confuse this with the "news:comp.software.extreme-
                                            > programming" list. I know I did, for a few minutes.
                                            >
                                            > (And if you want to take a quick look at the usenet XP discussion
                                            > list, I suggest the Google interface:
                                            > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.software.extreme-programming or
                                            > http://tinyurl.com/d59xm Be aware: That list hasn't always been as
                                            > focused or civil as this one. ;-)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                                            >
                                            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                            extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                                            >
                                            > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Ron Jeffries
                                            ... Excellent. I take it this means this discussion is over and the original suggestion is moot. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com The practices are not the
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Oct 30, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              On Sunday, October 30, 2005, at 5:34:24 PM, Victor wrote:

                                              >> Why would we want to "move" this list there?
                                              >> And what would it mean to do this? (...to "move" the list.)

                                              > My impression is that there is no need to do anything. Messages are already
                                              > going there, and they have some 3 years of messages.

                                              Excellent. I take it this means this discussion is over and the
                                              original suggestion is moot.

                                              Ron Jeffries
                                              www.XProgramming.com
                                              The practices are not the knowing: they are a path to the knowing.
                                            • Victor
                                              Yes, the original suggestion is moot. Victor. ... From: Ron Jeffries To: Sent: Sunday,
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Oct 30, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Yes, the original suggestion is moot.

                                                Victor.

                                                =========================================
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>
                                                To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:17 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [XP] Gmane Suggestion of moving the group


                                                > On Sunday, October 30, 2005, at 5:34:24 PM, Victor wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >> Why would we want to "move" this list there?
                                                > >> And what would it mean to do this? (...to "move" the list.)
                                                >
                                                > > My impression is that there is no need to do anything. Messages are
                                                already
                                                > > going there, and they have some 3 years of messages.
                                                >
                                                > Excellent. I take it this means this discussion is over and the
                                                > original suggestion is moot.
                                                >
                                                > Ron Jeffries
                                                > www.XProgramming.com
                                                > The practices are not the knowing: they are a path to the knowing.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                                                >
                                                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                                extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                                                >
                                                > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • jalmeter_99@yahoo.com
                                                ... There should be a bunch of history of the group on gmane already. I had it listed a couple years ago as gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming. The
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Oct 30, 2005
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                                                  Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> writes:

                                                  > On Friday, October 28, 2005, at 11:30:49 AM, Victor wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > They have instructions in http://gmane.org/import.php ,
                                                  >
                                                  > > Ideally, it would be all the messages, but this might be limited by reality.
                                                  > > It will be informational to also explore the links in the left side menu.
                                                  >
                                                  > > Going to this address
                                                  > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.extreme%2dprogramming
                                                  > > will give the viewer an idea of what's already there, and its organization.
                                                  >
                                                  > I don't see any practical way to move this group over there.
                                                  > Speaking just for me, I don't have any objection to having it done
                                                  > ... as long as all the new stuff would show up here.
                                                  >
                                                  > But I don't grok how this whole gmane thing works. I'd like to hear
                                                  > some discussion ...

                                                  There should be a bunch of history of the group on gmane already. I
                                                  had it listed a couple years ago as
                                                  gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming. The webpage above either
                                                  is not listing all the history, or gmane has had to roll it off to
                                                  conserve disk space.

                                                  The basic idea of gmane is that someone subscribes it to a mailing
                                                  list. Gmane then presents the mailing list as an NNTP feed. I happen
                                                  to like following discussions with my news reader _much_ better than
                                                  my mail reader.

                                                  -Jason

                                                  --
                                                  Jason L. Almeter
                                                  jalmeter underscore 99 yahoo
                                                • Dennis van der Stelt
                                                  ... As Tim Haughton wrote, using GMail works great. When in the morning I boot GMail and 10 messages in 1 thread have arrived, they all show up under each
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Nov 1, 2005
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                                                    Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries <at> XProgramming.com> writes:

                                                    > I don't see how to transfer them /at all/, but maybe I'm missing
                                                    > something. I'd be interested to hear what the other moderators have
                                                    > to say about the idea ...

                                                    As Tim Haughton wrote, using GMail works great.

                                                    When in the morning I boot GMail and 10 messages in 1 thread have arrived, they
                                                    all show up under each other. The ones I've already read, are collapsed so they
                                                    don't clutter the view. Works excellent. You can quickly reply to every single
                                                    message.

                                                    Searching works as fast and as good as Google itself.
                                                    Labels are excellent!
                                                    Starring specific special items so you're sure you can find them fast again.

                                                    The threaded view however of GMane is also really great. Too bad when I post a
                                                    message, my view goes back to the first thread/item again.

                                                    I think I'm going to use GMail for viewing new messages, threaded view for
                                                    larger views on complete threads and for searching older stuff.

                                                    No need to transfer XP messages as it seems. They're already there.

                                                    Wow, Gmail should provide something like this!
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