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Blog entry: A Vision for Fit

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  • Jim Shore
    ... Fit, Ward Cunningham s tool for agile requirements, is a brilliant tool for enabling discussion about software. As I ve listened to people talk about Fit,
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 26, 2005
      ----
      Fit, Ward Cunningham's tool for agile requirements, is a brilliant tool for
      enabling discussion about software. As I've listened to people talk about
      Fit, I've realized that I have an unusual view on how Fit enables this
      discussion. I'd like to take a moment of your time to explain my vision.

      More than anything else, Fit facilitates thinking about the domain. In the
      same way that test-driven development, when done well, facilitates thinking
      about design, Fit done well facilitates thinking about the domain. This
      thinking happens at the requirements level /and/ at the design level.
      /Done right, Fit fades into the background./ Let me tell a story.
      ----

      Read the rest of my new blog entry, "A Vision for Fit," at

      http://www.jamesshore.com/Blog/A-Vision-for-Fit.html

      Cheers,
      Jim
      ___
    • Brian Marick
      I agree with this vision. What s needed to realize it? - We don t have a common understanding of the human side of the communication beyond things like use a
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 2, 2005
        I agree with this vision. What's needed to realize it?

        - We don't have a common understanding of the human side of the
        communication beyond things like "use a whiteboard" and "testers should
        ask clarifying questions but take care not to overwhelm the
        conversation". There's a lot more to learn, boil down, and share.

        - The Customers are enthusiastic about the documents they get. The
        table-writers (never, in my experience, the actual Customer person) are
        less enthusiastic. There isn't a tool specialized for table-writing.
        Word's HTML is a horror, but that doesn't really matter. I don't find
        it makes my table editing easy enough. Word for OS X (my version)
        frequently messes up the formatting on tables (dropping grid lines,
        most often) and once added an extra column.

        - Programmers are the least enthusiastic. Here are the things I noticed
        annoying programmers as I was showing them Fit on last week's
        consulting gig:

        + The packaging is not one-click, at least not if you want
        FitLibrary.
        (In my case, made worse by the fact that the latest FitLibrary
        didn't
        seem to work with the latest Java reference implementation. That
        might have been my mess-up, but I'm pretty sure that problem
        lost me one programmer before I reverted to my tried-and-true
        older versions.)

        + IDE integration is weak compared to JUnit. You can run the test in
        one click, but it takes more than one click to find out if the
        row you
        expected to go green did go green. With JUnit, it's easy to point
        at a test or test method, point at it, tell the IDE to run just
        that one,
        and thereafter run it again with one click. The equivalent for
        Fit would
        be to do that for the current page you're working on.

        + The worst thing seems to be editing the tables. It seems that we
        frequently had cause to update the tables to capture ideas
        discovered
        in coding. (Example: calling across the room to ask the Customer
        how many digits of precision to display for X.) When programmers
        compare editing a Fit test to editing a JUnit test, well...

        + Lack of templates. I watched someone create a JUnit test with five
        keystrokes in Eclipse ('t' - 'e' - 's' - 't' -
        control-shift-meta-cokebottle).
        There's no such aid for common tasks.


        On Oct 26, 2005, at 2:08 AM, Jim Shore wrote:

        > ----
        > Fit, Ward Cunningham's tool for agile requirements, is a brilliant
        > tool for
        > enabling discussion about software. As I've listened to people talk
        > about
        > Fit, I've realized that I have an unusual view on how Fit enables this
        > discussion. I'd like to take a moment of your time to explain my
        > vision.
        >
        > More than anything else, Fit facilitates thinking about the domain.
        > In the
        > same way that test-driven development, when done well, facilitates
        > thinking
        > about design, Fit done well facilitates thinking about the domain.
        > This
        > thinking happens at the requirements level /and/ at the design level.
        > /Done right, Fit fades into the background./ Let me tell a story.
        > ----
        >
        > Read the rest of my new blog entry, "A Vision for Fit," at
        >
        > http://www.jamesshore.com/Blog/A-Vision-for-Fit.html
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Jim
        > ___
        >
        >
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------
        > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.
        > Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course
        > Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005
        > Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information
        > _______________________________________________
        > Fit-users mailing list
        > Fit-users@...
        > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fit-users
        >
        >
        -----
        Brian Marick, independent consultant
        Mostly on agile methods with a testing slant
        www.exampler.com, www.testing.com/cgi-bin/blog
        Book in progress: www.exampler.com/book
      • Rick Mugridge
        ... Agreed! There are many skills required to do this well. If the domain is not expressed well, as executable specifications , the storytests have much less
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 2, 2005
          Brian Marick wrote:

          >I agree with this vision. What's needed to realize it?
          >
          >- We don't have a common understanding of the human side of the
          >communication beyond things like "use a whiteboard" and "testers should
          >ask clarifying questions but take care not to overwhelm the
          >conversation". There's a lot more to learn, boil down, and share.
          >
          >
          Agreed! There are many skills required to do this well. If the domain is
          not expressed well, as "executable specifications", the storytests have
          much less value. This requires, from the various people involved:
          business knowledge, abstraction and conceptualisation skills, and
          testing skills. I often ask questions around the arity of associations
          between business objects - although I couch my questions in the domain
          terms. Eg, "Can a Customer have more than one Account?", "Do they have
          to have an Account?"

          >- The Customers are enthusiastic about the documents they get. The
          >table-writers (never, in my experience, the actual Customer person) are
          >less enthusiastic. There isn't a tool specialized for table-writing.
          >Word's HTML is a horror, but that doesn't really matter. I don't find
          >it makes my table editing easy enough. Word for OS X (my version)
          >frequently messes up the formatting on tables (dropping grid lines,
          >most often) and once added an extra column.
          >
          >
          Agreed. It's a big job to create a good tool here for customers (and for
          programmers, as below). I'm hampered in my progress on the storytest
          refactoring tool by having to do it in my spare time.

          Today, one of the Customers on the team I'm coaching asked about better
          tools that XPlanner, because (paraphasing) "All the tools and many of
          the practices are so developer-centric."

          >- Programmers are the least enthusiastic. Here are the things I noticed
          >annoying programmers as I was showing them Fit on last week's
          >consulting gig:
          >
          > + The packaging is not one-click, at least not if you want
          >FitLibrary.
          > (In my case, made worse by the fact that the latest FitLibrary
          >didn't
          > seem to work with the latest Java reference implementation. That
          > might have been my mess-up, but I'm pretty sure that problem
          > lost me one programmer before I reverted to my tried-and-true
          > older versions.)
          >
          >
          That's my fault, sorry - I'm behind with that too.

          > + IDE integration is weak compared to JUnit. You can run the test in
          > one click, but it takes more than one click to find out if the
          >row you
          > expected to go green did go green. With JUnit, it's easy to point
          > at a test or test method, point at it, tell the IDE to run just
          >that one,
          > and thereafter run it again with one click. The equivalent for
          >Fit would
          > be to do that for the current page you're working on.
          >
          > + The worst thing seems to be editing the tables. It seems that we
          > frequently had cause to update the tables to capture ideas
          >discovered
          > in coding. (Example: calling across the room to ask the Customer
          > how many digits of precision to display for X.) When programmers
          > compare editing a Fit test to editing a JUnit test, well...
          >
          > + Lack of templates. I watched someone create a JUnit test with five
          > keystrokes in Eclipse ('t' - 'e' - 's' - 't' -
          >control-shift-meta-cokebottle).
          > There's no such aid for common tasks.
          >
          >
          >On Oct 26, 2005, at 2:08 AM, Jim Shore wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>----
          >>Fit, Ward Cunningham's tool for agile requirements, is a brilliant
          >>tool for
          >>enabling discussion about software. As I've listened to people talk
          >>about
          >>Fit, I've realized that I have an unusual view on how Fit enables this
          >>discussion. I'd like to take a moment of your time to explain my
          >>vision.
          >>
          >>More than anything else, Fit facilitates thinking about the domain.
          >>In the
          >>same way that test-driven development, when done well, facilitates
          >>thinking
          >>about design, Fit done well facilitates thinking about the domain.
          >>This
          >>thinking happens at the requirements level /and/ at the design level.
          >>/Done right, Fit fades into the background./ Let me tell a story.
          >>----
          >>
          >>Read the rest of my new blog entry, "A Vision for Fit," at
          >>
          >>http://www.jamesshore.com/Blog/A-Vision-for-Fit.html
          >>
          >>Cheers,
          >>Jim
          >>___
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>-------------------------------------------------------
          >>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.
          >>Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course
          >>Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005
          >>Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information
          >>_______________________________________________
          >>Fit-users mailing list
          >>Fit-users@...
          >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fit-users
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >-----
          >Brian Marick, independent consultant
          >Mostly on agile methods with a testing slant
          >www.exampler.com, www.testing.com/cgi-bin/blog
          >Book in progress: www.exampler.com/book
          >
          >
          >
          >
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