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[extremeprogramming] Re: I got the books this weekend! Hooray! and questions...!

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Hear and Obey! R
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 31, 2000
      At 07:02 AM 1/31/2000 -0800, Phlip wrote:
      >But the third leg on the Simplicity stool is OnceAndOnlyOnce.
      >YouAREGonnaNeedThat!

      Hear and Obey!

      R
    • Phlip
      From: Serge Beaumont ... To make ... need ... If we had an Design Phase and a Coding Phase , then YAGNI would apply to Design - planning what to write - and
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 31, 2000
        From: Serge Beaumont

        > - Aren't YAGNI and Simplest Thing That Could Possibly work the same?
        To make
        > something simple you usually have to tell yourself "you ain't gonna
        need
        > it".

        If we had an Design "Phase" and a Coding "Phase", then YAGNI would apply
        to Design - planning what to write - and DTSTTCPW applies to Coding. One
        is guessing what implementation will support a requirement, and the
        other is typing it in and knowing when to stop.

        Of course we still have those Phases, but they are not serial in time
        anymore.

        UnitTestsFirst supports DTSTTCPW because you stop at the exact compile
        where all the tests pass.

        But the third leg on the Simplicity stool is OnceAndOnlyOnce.
        YouAREGonnaNeedThat!

        Phlip
        ======= http://users.deltanet.com/~tegan/home.html =======
      • Kent Beck
        Serge- Your minimal documentation sounds okay to me. Promise me that if no one reads it you ll stop writing it, though. Kent
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 2, 2000
          Serge-

          Your minimal documentation sounds okay to me. Promise me that if no one
          reads it you'll stop writing it, though.

          Kent
        • Serge Beaumont
          From: Kent Beck To: Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:50 PM Subject: [XP] Re: [extremeprogramming] I
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 2, 2000
            From: "Kent Beck" <kentbeck@...>
            To: <extremeprogramming@egroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:50 PM
            Subject: [XP] Re: [extremeprogramming] I got the books this weekend! Hooray!
            and questions...!


            > Serge-
            >
            > Your minimal documentation sounds okay to me. Promise me that if no one
            > reads it you'll stop writing it, though.
            >
            > Kent
            >
            Hey, don't worry! I love modelling, writing it up is the boring part 8-)

            Serge.
          • Fred George
            From: Serge Beaumont [mailto:beaumose@iquip.nl] - I saw the picture in the book of the floor plan. This actually shows me a culture difference between Europe
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 2, 2000
              From: Serge Beaumont [mailto:beaumose@...]

              "- I saw the picture in the book of the floor plan. This actually shows me a
              culture difference between Europe and the US. In Europe we don't use
              cubicles, we have rooms holding (usually) 3-5 desks and they are arranged in
              blocks of four. But I wonder, wouldn't a floor plan with all the desks
              against the walls and the people in the center be better? Then you can
              really drive around with your chair. I wonder who has experience with this
              floor plan."

              I serve as a mentor. If I can look up from my work and see faces, I can see
              whether I need to jump in. Hence, I like desks-in-the-middle. On the other
              hand, I have to get up to see their screen. Thus the advantage of
              chairs-in-the -middle.

              "- There's one thing I have difficulty with: no documentation. It will be
              one
              of the later ones I adopt. Even so, I think I have a very good way of
              creating very concise analysis and design documents. Is the XP way to throw
              out all documentation, or would it be accepted if you have this very
              minimalistic system?"

              We javadoc our XP Java code. We write the javadoc first to help crystalize
              our thinking. Class comments capture the conceptualization of the class;
              method comments describe the simple, single thing the method does (but not
              how). I would resist writing comments after the code is written _unless_ I
              was trying to understand the code and Martin's Refactorings hadn't worked
              (or I got lazy).

              Fred
              mailto:FredGeorge@...
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