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Re: [XP] Gut feeling vs head language

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Though I say it who shouldn t, I d recommend only going public as a last resort. If it works, it will quite likely make an enemy. It may seem like the PIQ
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 1, 2005
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      On Thursday, September 1, 2005, at 3:47:59 AM, Thomas Eyde wrote:

      > Cooperation was obtained when we happened to agree or when I decided
      > to do it his way. When there were conflicts, there was no "my way",
      > only his.

      > What I failed to do, which burned me, was to flag in public whose
      > decition we are following, and ask for help in public whenever that
      > decition is flawed. More specificly, I should address him directly in
      > public and say: You decided we should do x, but I can't make it to
      > work. I need you to look into it and make it work.

      Though I say it who shouldn't, I'd recommend only going public as a
      last resort. If it works, it will quite likely make an enemy. It may
      seem like the PIQ is an enemy now, but probably not yet.

      I'd suggest, first, a sit down, eye to eye, no BS conversation on
      how things are going on. It could start simply:

      Jack, when there are two ideas on how to do things, we seem always
      to have to do yours. Even if yours is better, that's no way for me
      to learn, and frankly, my ideas aren't always all that bad.

      We need to find a better way.

      [FX: Thomas stops, and listens until Jack stops talking.]

      > Or, I could refuse to accept the task. If someone want to decide so
      > badly, shouldn't they also accept the responsibility as well?

      It could work. Maybe something like

      Jack, I frankly think that's not the best decision. If you insist
      on going that way, you'll have to go it alone. Or, if you prefer,
      I'll work with you on it, and we'll both learn something.

      In passing, I don't know if this is supposed to be an XP shop.
      Anyway, I am guessing that you and Jack don't pair program a lot. Is
      the team working in an open workspace?

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      If you want to garden, you have to bend down and touch the soil.
      Gardening is a practice, not an idea.
      -- Thich Nhat Hanh
    • Thomas Eyde
      This is (was) not an XP shop, not even close to be agile. We tried to do iterations, but the manager willingly let the date slip so we could put all promised
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 1, 2005
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        This is (was) not an XP shop, not even close to be agile. We tried to
        do iterations, but the manager willingly let the date slip so we could
        put all promised features in.

        We don't pair at all. The workspace is open, yes, but doesn't seem to
        help. We don't work on the same tasks, and we don't switch them. So I
        am the gui expert, some other on BizTalk, yet another on database
        access and so on.

        The project is over, my opponent (enemy is such a harsh word) has
        moved to another city, and I don't think it's likely we'll work
        together in the near future. I share and ask because I hope to learn
        what I can do better next time.

        The issue, really, is how can I open up the other's mind when I see
        and feel the pain of bad judgements.

        On 9/1/05, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
        > In passing, I don't know if this is supposed to be an XP shop.
        > Anyway, I am guessing that you and Jack don't pair program a lot. Is
        > the team working in an open workspace?
      • Steve Tooke
        ... I think the only option, really, is honesty. If you aren t on board with a decision you have to question it and try to understand why it was made. This way
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 1, 2005
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          On 9/1/05, Thomas Eyde <thomas.eyde@...> wrote:
          > The issue, really, is how can I open up the other's mind when I see
          > and feel the pain of bad judgements.

          I think the only option, really, is honesty. If you aren't on board
          with a decision you have to question it and try to understand why it
          was made. This way you get to learn what the PIQ was thinking. During
          this discussion you can point out where your ideas may be a better
          fit, or you may see that the other idea is in fact the better option,
          or some new plan may hit one of you. The best thing is that you should
          both learn something.
        • Cory Foy
          ... I think there are two schools to this. I truly believe there is a camp where people want to refuse to believe there is a problem. However, I think the
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 26, 2005
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            Thomas Eyde wrote:
            > Sometimes people will simply not understand there is a problem. I have
            > experienced that when I was the more knowledged person on the subject
            > (which, btw, was/is ASP.NET). My opponent on the subject had chosen a
            > hopeless GUI library.
            >
            > Hopeless in my opinion, anyway.
            >
            > Any of my attempts was countered by something which boils down to:
            > "Let's just define the application *not* to be used that way. If the
            > users choose to do otherwise, then it's their problem."
            >
            > So what do we do when people just refuse to understand the problem?

            I think there are two schools to this. I truly believe there is a camp
            where people want to refuse to believe there is a problem. However, I
            think the second camp might be a little more likely. This is the camp
            that doesn't know enough to know they don't know. I've mentioned the
            paper on here once or twice before, but the basic concept is that
            participants in a study proved over and over that they didn't always
            possess the knowledge to recognize how bad they were.

            In those cases, the resistance may be from them not wanting to admit
            that they don't know. I've certainly been guilty of that in my past. The
            only thing that can help in that situation is training, which if they
            pretend like they don't need, can lead to a bad situation.

            Have you seen situations like I am referring to?

            Cory
          • Thomas Eyde
            The only thing I can think of right now, is rejecting the idea of TDD. Except from that, I think I have been blessed with open minded coworkers. The story
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 26, 2005
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              The only thing I can think of right now, is rejecting the idea of TDD.
              Except from that, I think I have been blessed with open minded
              coworkers.

              The story about the GUI library is a totally different one. This guy
              is good at what he does, but wait...

              I think you hit the nail!

              In retrospect I think the problem is more that *he* refuse to
              acknowledge he lack information or knowledge. Other people have told
              me this person is over confident in his own expertise.

              I guess because he is good at most thing which he does, makes him
              think he is good at everything he does. I wish I had this insight 9
              moths ago.

              --
              Thomas

              On 9/26/05, Cory Foy <usergroup@...> wrote:
              > I think there are two schools to this. I truly believe there is a camp
              > where people want to refuse to believe there is a problem. However, I
              > think the second camp might be a little more likely. This is the camp
              > that doesn't know enough to know they don't know.
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