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RE: Re[2]: [XP] Shifting of the Balance?

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  • Steve Bate
    Hi Doug, Thanks for sharing your perspective. I understand what you are saying and I agree with most of it. As for the name recognition, I think that s at
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 2, 2005
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      Hi Doug,

      Thanks for sharing your perspective. I understand what you
      are saying and I agree with most of it. As for the name
      recognition, I think that's at least part of the trigger for
      this thread. Some people are getting the impression that
      Scrum is recently gaining a lot recognition within the
      software development community compared to XP. I've seen
      some indications of that myself. There's seems to been
      an increasing number of job postings for high-level
      Scrum-related positions in the last year or so while
      the XP job posting numbers seems to be more or less flat.
      I haven't done any quantitative analysis on this but it's
      my impression.

      Steve

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Swartz
      > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:58 PM
      > To: Steve Bate
      > Subject: Re[2]: [XP] Shifting of the Balance?
      >
      >
      > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bate" <steve@t...>
      > wrote:
      > > I'm curious why you still call your organization an XP-based
      > > organization rather than an "agile organization".
      >
      > I'll give a slightly different answer than Ken did to this
      > question.
      >
      > I, more than Ken, would probably, if asked what development
      > methodology we use, answer: Extreme Programming, rather than
      > XP-based. And yet, of course, Ken is right, we do things that
      > aren't specifically in any of the XP books. We often don't
      > always do all 12, (or 13) original XP practices. We do many of
      > the core practices in XPE2E, and some of the secondary ones.
      >
      > So, why do I still say "We do XP"? Well, because we started
      > off doing XP; by Ron's unwritten book, because Kent's wasn't
      > out yet. Many of our current practices are still very
      > recognizable as "XP" practices. Perhaps someday we'll have
      > moved to a place where most of our practices aren't
      > recognizably XP. Then I'll be proud to use another moniker.
      >
      > Another reason is that for some reason, it feels like XP has a
      > lot more name recognition than "Agile Methodology", or SCRUM,
      > or Crystal, or any of the other named agile methodologies.
      > Thus, even if our planning and tracking and daily meetings
      > exactly matched those taught in Scrum Master training, if our
      > engineering practices were primarily XP engineering practices,
      > I'd still probably call it XP, even though I could just as
      > easily call it SCRUM. It's easier to use XP as a starting
      > place to describe what we do, and then talk about what
      > practices we've augmented or replaced.
      >
      > I see agile as an attribute. It's an attribute of
      > organizations, and of methodologies which help organizations
      > be agile. It's one of the things we, as an organization strive
      > to be, all the time. Our organization is proud when our
      > customers see us a agile. So, if you asked "What kind of
      > organization are you?", my answer would likely include the
      > word agile but not the words Extreme Programming.
      >
      > > For me, I'd prefer to work for an agile organization than one
      > > that calls themselves an XP organization or even an XP-based
      > > organization. The XP-based label still begs the question of "what
      > > is or is not XP?" and might unnecessarily constrain the team's
      > > thinking in some areas.
      >
      > Yes, it might. the words we use very much influence our
      > thinking. Of course, I don't really think of us as an XP-based
      > organization, but as an organization which uses XP. And yes,
      > this may still constrain my thinking.
      >
      > To keep my thinking open, I read (and very much value)
      > thoughts and books from Cockburn, Highsmith, Schwaber,
      > Poppendieck, etc. But, my identification of what we do as XP,
      > probably does influence my thinking. We all have to have some
      > box to think outside of, I guess mine is XP. It still seems
      > like a great place to start my thinking, even though SCRUM
      > might have been just as good.
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      > Doug Swartz
      > daswartz@...
      >
      >
      >
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