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Re: [XP] Shifting of the Balance?

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  • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
    From: Kent Beck To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 157 , Aug 1 7:38 AM
      From: "Kent Beck" <kentb.at.earthlink.net@...>
      To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
      Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:28 AM
      Subject: RE: [XP] Shifting of the Balance?

      > John,
      > I don't emphasize the divergence in agile development at Agile Alliance
      > events because it doesn't feel safe for me to say, "XP is different" in
      > that
      > venue. I noticed that my open space sessions were the only ones that used
      > "XP" in the title at the Agile 2005 conference. I think there is
      > substantial
      > disagreement between the different styles in values, principles, and
      > practices.

      I both agree and disagree with this. My point was about project
      management, not about either software construction or group process.
      I will grant you that there are differences between XP and Scrum in
      the project management area, but those differences are overwhelmed
      by the similarities.

      The real significant differences are that XP has a software construction
      process, and none of the others do. XP has gone farther into the group
      process than any of the others as well.

      It is, I think, worth talking about those things. I've already mentioned
      that I was rather disappointed by the "Agile Engineering Practices"
      track on Sunday - the only one of the four talks that I would have
      dignified as an engineering practice was the Fit one. The other three
      were totally about project management.

      One of the reasons I repackage XP into the three areas of
      Agile Project Management, XP Colocated Small Group Process
      and XP Software Construction is so that I can talk about it
      without raising a lot of heat and relatively little light.

      > The Agile Alliance was formed to discover, articulate, and communicate the
      > common denominators between XP, Scrum, Crystal, FDD, ASD, and DSDM. It
      > doesn't surprise me that it hasn't resulted in open conflict. I think it
      > will be a sign of maturity of agile development when it is safe to say
      > what
      > those differences are and when healthy conflict is seen positively.

      I see a merger happening, and I see XP's contribution as the
      software construction process, possibly also the recognition that
      small colocated teams are the most efficient way of constructing

      John Roth

      > Sincerely yours,
      > Kent Beck
      > Three Rivers Institute
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      >> [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      >> yahoogroups@...
      >> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:59 PM
      >> To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: Re: [XP] Shifting of the Balance?
      >> People simply aren't reporting that degree of divergence,
      >> and, as far as I can tell, the originators of each of the various
      >> Agile methodologies don't believe that there is that much
      >> difference, either. They're certainly not reporting a wall, a
      >> snake, a rope, a tree and a fan.
      >> If they're pretending there's a lot of divergence, its for
      >> marketing reasons.
      >> For a second reason, I don't like comparing Agile to an
      >> elephant. I remember a Gif from a long time ago showing
      >> an elephant tap dancing - something having to do with
      >> making the IBM elephant move.
      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
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    • Andrew McDonagh
      ... .... Well, August certainly seems to have shifted us back again - 2063 posts in the month! ... Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked
      Message 157 of 157 , Sep 1, 2005
        yahoogroups@... wrote:

        >From: "Tim Haughton"
        >To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
        >Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:13 AM
        >Subject: [XP] Shifting of the Balance?
        >>Just noticed a curiosity...
        >>Last month was the ExtremeProgramming list's slowest month since its
        >>creation all that time ago. Conversely, last month was the
        >>SrumDevelopment list's busiest month since its inception.
        >>A change in the air? Or lies, damn lies and statistics?
        >Interesting. In fact, this month is shaping up to be the third slowest,
        >just after April of 2000.
        >I'm not so sure it's a shifting of the balance. I think it's a bit more
        >complicated, and, in the long run, benificial.


        Well, August certainly seems to have shifted us back again - 2063 posts
        in the month!



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