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RE: [XP] Is "skip the test" ever an option in XP? (was: about no-arg constructor)

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  • Kent Beck
    Chris, The concept you are refering to below sounds like blame, not accountability. Whether I accept someone else s blame partly depends on whether I ve given
    Message 1 of 127 , Aug 1, 2005
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      Chris,

      The concept you are refering to below sounds like blame, not accountability.
      Whether I accept someone else's blame partly depends on whether I've given a
      whole-hearted effort to the task. If I have, I find it easier to see
      attempts at blame as not saying something about me.

      The OP was asked to provide coverage metrics for his code. I think if I was
      comfortable with my testing efforts, I would just report my coverage. If my
      manager told me 80% just wasn't good enough, that could be the start of a
      valuable conversation.

      Sincerely yours,

      Kent Beck
      Three Rivers Institute

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hanson
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:51 PM
      > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [XP] Is "skip the test" ever an option in XP?
      > (was: about no-arg constructor)
      >
      >
      > On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:03 AM, Kent Beck wrote:
      >
      > > I asked that question because in my own experience if I try to
      > > wiggle out of
      > > reporting some metric, it is generally because I am not
      > comfortable
      > > with the
      > > underlying factor the metric is trying to measure.
      >
      > Sometimes people aren't comfortable with things for external
      > reasons. We may have done our best, and be comfortable with the
      > result, but may have a management culture that likes to beat people
      > up over a metric-of-the-week.
      >
      > When you're dealing with a pathological organization,
      > "accountability" is not used to build mutual trust or respect. It's
      > used to enforce a position in a hierarchy, or at the least as a way
      > to try and browbeat more time or work out of developers.
      >
      > There are way, way too many pathological organizations out there.
      >
      > -- Chris
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      >
      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Kent Beck
      Chris, The concept you are refering to below sounds like blame, not accountability. Whether I accept someone else s blame partly depends on whether I ve given
      Message 127 of 127 , Aug 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Chris,

        The concept you are refering to below sounds like blame, not accountability.
        Whether I accept someone else's blame partly depends on whether I've given a
        whole-hearted effort to the task. If I have, I find it easier to see
        attempts at blame as not saying something about me.

        The OP was asked to provide coverage metrics for his code. I think if I was
        comfortable with my testing efforts, I would just report my coverage. If my
        manager told me 80% just wasn't good enough, that could be the start of a
        valuable conversation.

        Sincerely yours,

        Kent Beck
        Three Rivers Institute

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hanson
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:51 PM
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] Is "skip the test" ever an option in XP?
        > (was: about no-arg constructor)
        >
        >
        > On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:03 AM, Kent Beck wrote:
        >
        > > I asked that question because in my own experience if I try to
        > > wiggle out of
        > > reporting some metric, it is generally because I am not
        > comfortable
        > > with the
        > > underlying factor the metric is trying to measure.
        >
        > Sometimes people aren't comfortable with things for external
        > reasons. We may have done our best, and be comfortable with the
        > result, but may have a management culture that likes to beat people
        > up over a metric-of-the-week.
        >
        > When you're dealing with a pathological organization,
        > "accountability" is not used to build mutual trust or respect. It's
        > used to enforce a position in a hierarchy, or at the least as a way
        > to try and browbeat more time or work out of developers.
        >
        > There are way, way too many pathological organizations out there.
        >
        > -- Chris
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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