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Re: [XP] How to invoice clients in XP projects

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  • Brill Pappin
    ... [...] ... I d have to agree, if you have to resort to that to survive, then your doing something wrong... if you do it because your greedy, then good luck
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 31, 2005
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      Phlip wrote:
      > Tim Haughton wrote:
      [...]
      > If you are playing The Contractor Game, the kind where you meter your
      > phone and charge extra for each minute on the phone, then you are a
      > parasite draining away your host's health and werewithal to sustain
      > you.

      I'd have to agree, if you have to resort to that to survive, then your
      doing something wrong... if you do it because your greedy, then good
      luck keeping your clients. You have to care about them (your client) to
      do good work for them.

      I never bill for the things that take a moment to do, I *only* bill for
      stories in the iteration.
      I also don't bill for bugs I introduce... I'm good at not introducing
      them in the first place, but some do slip by, so I simply fix them and
      keep going. If the "bug" is the result of something I'm not directly
      responsible for, then it becomes a story and is dealt with in the normal
      way.

      What this means is that I take a small hit on the little time wasters,
      but it makes my clients happier and really gives them the feeling that
      I'm working in their best interest, which means they keep coming back.

      Occasionally you do get that a client that tries to weasel free work out
      of you, but that can be dealt with in a firm but polite way... if they
      get so upset about it that they claim they will walk, let them, you
      don't need the hassle, and both of you know your work is good.

      In my case, it's good work and showing results that keep my existing
      clients coming back, and allows me to get new clients. Often just the
      detail inherent in producing a good backlog and good iterations is
      enough to impress them as most companies have had nothing but nightmares
      from contractors.

      my 2 cents.

      - Brill Pappin
    • Norman Sasono
      Thanks! I ve also seen Kent s feedback on Time & Material basis, Kent s Optional Scope Contract article, Cyrus Innovation slides, user stories built for one
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 1, 2005
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        Thanks! I've also seen Kent's feedback on Time & Material basis, Kent's
        Optional Scope Contract article, Cyrus Innovation slides, user stories built
        for one iteration, and some others...

        The problem is most companies prefer Fixed Scope Contract (Time, Cost and
        Scope). For new clients, they insist us to put in our proposal (early in the
        beginning, before the project started & even before they choose a vendor)
        the total cost needed and the time needed to built a set of complete
        features. Then, based on these proposals (from several vendors) the client
        will pick one vendor that they think provides the most competitive cost &
        time for the 'scope'. I've tried the Time & Material basis but no customers
        buy the idea.

        What would be your strategy for this?

        Best regards,
        Norman

        -----Original Message-----
        From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brill Pappin
        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:14 AM
        To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [XP] How to invoice clients in XP projects

        In case this helps, I bill at the end of an iteration with net 30 terms.
        The idea being that by the end of an iteration, I've dealt with
        everything the client signed off on, and because I'm doing vertical
        slices (of course) the client can see the results of the time I'm
        billing for.

        Works for me, and my clients couldn't be more delighted.

        Biggest problem I had was that I couldn't sell some of them agile and
        scrum... now I simply tell them "this is how it will work" and if they
        don't like it, I don't take them on.

        Being organized is a must though... if your not good at it, try a good
        tool like XPlanner... not ideal for a billing contractor, but it does
        the trick (you have to do a little translation to get the time sheets
        into you invoice format).

        - Brill
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