Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Open to XP....How to get started???

Expand Messages
  • Gregory
    OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on Projects. How do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4 programmers. Though there
    Message 1 of 7 , May 5, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on Projects. How
      do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4 programmers. Though
      there is plenty of work to be done, how do I get the ball rolling. I pretty
      much have carte blanche on the methodologies so how can I get started using
      XP methodologies ASAP.

      Gregory J. Hogan

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>
      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 7:16 PM
      Subject: Re: [XP] Re: XP weaknesses --- Fixed Price


      > On Thursday, May 5, 2005, at 2:56:57 AM, Steven Gordon wrote:
      >
      > > Tame fp/s projects are no big challenge for any approach. XP's
      > > benefit when there are no changes is
      > > primarily just in quality.
      >
      > > However, in the wild, what is supposed to be a fp/s project
      > > usually turns out to be a just a fp project. XP
      > > holds a big advantage when the customer (or external forces)
      > > starts making unexpected requirement changes,
      > > especially compared to non-agile approaches.
      >
      > Yes, I was going to underline this same idea. There is almost always
      > a change control plan and procedure. Some companies even bid so as
      > to make their money on the changes, I'm told.
      >
      > Because an XP team can learn to be indifferent to changes, we either
      > have the opportunity to bid a very flexible change approach, thus
      > producing a more favorable offer, or to bid a conventional one, and
      > make more money.
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > In programming, do, or undo. There is always try. --Yoda
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      >
      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Tony Byrne
      Hello Gregory, G OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on Projects. How G do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4
      Message 2 of 7 , May 6, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Gregory,

        G> OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on Projects. How
        G> do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4 programmers. Though
        G> there is plenty of work to be done, how do I get the ball rolling. I pretty
        G> much have carte blanche on the methodologies so how can I get started using
        G> XP methodologies ASAP.

        Well I've been in your situation, and if I had to do it again, the
        first thing I'd do is get an experienced coach on-board. Not every company is
        prepared to commit to retaining a coach, but those that do must have a much higher
        chance of success.

        I played the lone-XP advocate in my organization. I made the case for
        agile development and was responsible for bootstrapping our adoption
        of XP. Two and a half years on, I can say it would have been a heck of
        a lot easier for everyone, not to mention more successful an
        implementation, if we'd had someone experienced on hand to guide us.

        I have found that it's one thing to read up on and totally grok XP,
        but it's quite another to communicate it to management and guide an
        organization in it's implementation.

        You mention that you have carte blanche on methodologies. Make sure
        that you gain proper buy-in from the stakeholders. Remind them that
        XP requires commitment and that there will be times when they will be
        called to make good on their promises to support of XP.

        Regards,

        Tony.

        --
        Tony Byrne
      • acockburn@aol.com
        I think that Ron Jeffries book on XP and Ken Auer s are the best two for getting started and how do we actually do this stuff . In a message dated 5/6/2005
        Message 3 of 7 , May 6, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          I think that Ron Jeffries' book on XP and Ken Auer's are the best two for
          "getting started" and "how do we actually do this stuff".


          In a message dated 5/6/2005 8:03:24 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
          extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com writes:

          Subject: Open to XP....How to get started???

          OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on Projects. How
          do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4 programmers. Though
          there is plenty of work to be done, how do I get the ball rolling. I pretty
          much have carte blanche on the methodologies so how can I get started using
          XP methodologies ASAP.

          Gregory J. Hogan






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gregory
          As I am in a small organziation I will be the one taking the lead and it will be as if I am the lone-XP advocate. Management will want me to show results to
          Message 4 of 7 , May 6, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            As I am in a small organziation I will be the one taking the lead and it
            will be as if I am the lone-XP advocate. Management will want me to show
            "results" to prove my case. Would it be a good idea to meet with management
            to let them know of my plans and get as much buy in from them as possible?
            If I don't approach them I would protype a project and give them feedback on
            its results.

            Where I work management typically demands a project be done by a certain
            time with little or no planning. They make deadlines based on wants not
            practicality. Anyway maybe because of the way they are XP might be the best
            thing for the organization.

            Yes, if I could get a coach it would be ideal, but if not what would be the
            next best thing?

            Gregory Hogan

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Tony Byrne" <yahoogroups@...>
            To: "Gregory" <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:53 AM
            Subject: Re: [XP] Open to XP....How to get started???


            > Hello Gregory,
            >
            > G> OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on
            Projects. How
            > G> do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4 programmers.
            Though
            > G> there is plenty of work to be done, how do I get the ball rolling. I
            pretty
            > G> much have carte blanche on the methodologies so how can I get started
            using
            > G> XP methodologies ASAP.
            >
            > Well I've been in your situation, and if I had to do it again, the
            > first thing I'd do is get an experienced coach on-board. Not every
            company is
            > prepared to commit to retaining a coach, but those that do must have a
            much higher
            > chance of success.
            >
            > I played the lone-XP advocate in my organization. I made the case for
            > agile development and was responsible for bootstrapping our adoption
            > of XP. Two and a half years on, I can say it would have been a heck of
            > a lot easier for everyone, not to mention more successful an
            > implementation, if we'd had someone experienced on hand to guide us.
            >
            > I have found that it's one thing to read up on and totally grok XP,
            > but it's quite another to communicate it to management and guide an
            > organization in it's implementation.
            >
            > You mention that you have carte blanche on methodologies. Make sure
            > that you gain proper buy-in from the stakeholders. Remind them that
            > XP requires commitment and that there will be times when they will be
            > called to make good on their promises to support of XP.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Tony.
            >
            > --
            > Tony Byrne
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
            >
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Steven Gordon
            If you are going to set expectations or compare the results of a trial XP project to other projects, can you obtain statistics on the success rate, tardiness
            Message 5 of 7 , May 6, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              If you are going to set expectations or compare the results of a trial XP project to other projects, can you obtain statistics on the success rate, tardiness and cost overruns of previous comparable projects at your company?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Gregory
              Sent: Fri 5/6/2005 3:02 PM
              To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
              Cc:
              Subject: Re: [XP] Open to XP....How to get started???



              As I am in a small organziation I will be the one taking the lead and it
              will be as if I am the lone-XP advocate. Management will want me to show
              "results" to prove my case. Would it be a good idea to meet with management
              to let them know of my plans and get as much buy in from them as possible?
              If I don't approach them I would protype a project and give them feedback on
              its results.

              Where I work management typically demands a project be done by a certain
              time with little or no planning. They make deadlines based on wants not
              practicality. Anyway maybe because of the way they are XP might be the best
              thing for the organization.

              Yes, if I could get a coach it would be ideal, but if not what would be the
              next best thing?

              Gregory Hogan

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Tony Byrne" <yahoogroups@...>
              To: "Gregory" <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:53 AM
              Subject: Re: [XP] Open to XP....How to get started???


              > Hello Gregory,
              >
              > G> OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on
              Projects. How
              > G> do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4 programmers.
              Though
              > G> there is plenty of work to be done, how do I get the ball rolling. I
              pretty
              > G> much have carte blanche on the methodologies so how can I get started
              using
              > G> XP methodologies ASAP.
              >
              > Well I've been in your situation, and if I had to do it again, the
              > first thing I'd do is get an experienced coach on-board. Not every
              company is
              > prepared to commit to retaining a coach, but those that do must have a
              much higher
              > chance of success.
              >
              > I played the lone-XP advocate in my organization. I made the case for
              > agile development and was responsible for bootstrapping our adoption
              > of XP. Two and a half years on, I can say it would have been a heck of
              > a lot easier for everyone, not to mention more successful an
              > implementation, if we'd had someone experienced on hand to guide us.
              >
              > I have found that it's one thing to read up on and totally grok XP,
              > but it's quite another to communicate it to management and guide an
              > organization in it's implementation.
              >
              > You mention that you have carte blanche on methodologies. Make sure
              > that you gain proper buy-in from the stakeholders. Remind them that
              > XP requires commitment and that there will be times when they will be
              > called to make good on their promises to support of XP.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Tony.
              >
              > --
              > Tony Byrne








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • banshee858
              ... Be cautious and get by in from people hiring in the organization than you. At some point, people you are working with need to know the senior people in
              Message 6 of 7 , May 6, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                >
                > Where I work management typically demands a project be done by a
                > certain time with little or no planning. They make deadlines based
                > on wants not practicality. Anyway maybe because of the way they are
                > XP might be the best thing for the organization.
                >
                > Yes, if I could get a coach it would be ideal, but if not what would
                > be the next best thing?
                >
                Be cautious and get by in from people hiring in the organization than
                you. At some point, people you are working with need to know the
                senior people in the company are backing you. I know from personal
                experience, once you have lost senior backing, its all over but the
                finger pointing.

                You could try this as a sample pitch I once heard from Ken Schwaber (I
                have never used this, so proceed with caution): "I was hoping to talk
                with you cause I am interested in greater collaboration with people in
                the group, I want to improve the quality of our product, double our
                productivity and deliver software in short cycles of couple weeks to a
                month. Is it OK if I do that? I want to ask your permission because
                your the boss and I am going to change a few things."

                Carlton
              • Kent Beck
                Gregory, Your situation sounds like an excellent opportunity to try accountability. Under the cloud of impossible deadlines, I have seen people go the opposite
                Message 7 of 7 , May 7, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gregory,

                  Your situation sounds like an excellent opportunity to try accountability.
                  Under the cloud of impossible deadlines, I have seen people go the opposite
                  direction, hiding what they are doing and spending time and energy avoiding
                  blame. I encourage you to be as open and visible as you can. Find out from
                  the managers what results (and corresponding metrics) they care about.
                  Commit to concrete goals. Measure your project visibly and frequently on
                  delivering. I also encourage you to share your story with this list as it
                  unfolds. People here have experience and ideas for helping you achieve the
                  results you have committed to.

                  Kent Beck
                  Three Rivers Institute

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregory
                  > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 3:02 PM
                  > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [XP] Open to XP....How to get started???
                  >
                  > As I am in a small organziation I will be the one taking the
                  > lead and it
                  > will be as if I am the lone-XP advocate. Management will want
                  > me to show
                  > "results" to prove my case. Would it be a good idea to meet
                  > with management
                  > to let them know of my plans and get as much buy in from them
                  > as possible?
                  > If I don't approach them I would protype a project and give
                  > them feedback on
                  > its results.
                  >
                  > Where I work management typically demands a project be done
                  > by a certain
                  > time with little or no planning. They make deadlines based on
                  > wants not
                  > practicality. Anyway maybe because of the way they are XP
                  > might be the best
                  > thing for the organization.
                  >
                  > Yes, if I could get a coach it would be ideal, but if not
                  > what would be the
                  > next best thing?
                  >
                  > Gregory Hogan
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Tony Byrne" <yahoogroups@...>
                  > To: "Gregory" <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:53 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [XP] Open to XP....How to get started???
                  >
                  >
                  > > Hello Gregory,
                  > >
                  > > G> OK.....I have been reading about XP and am open to using it on
                  > Projects. How
                  > > G> do I get started? We are a small shop with a total of 4
                  > programmers.
                  > Though
                  > > G> there is plenty of work to be done, how do I get the
                  > ball rolling. I
                  > pretty
                  > > G> much have carte blanche on the methodologies so how can
                  > I get started
                  > using
                  > > G> XP methodologies ASAP.
                  > >
                  > > Well I've been in your situation, and if I had to do it again, the
                  > > first thing I'd do is get an experienced coach on-board. Not every
                  > company is
                  > > prepared to commit to retaining a coach, but those that do
                  > must have a
                  > much higher
                  > > chance of success.
                  > >
                  > > I played the lone-XP advocate in my organization. I made
                  > the case for
                  > > agile development and was responsible for bootstrapping our adoption
                  > > of XP. Two and a half years on, I can say it would have
                  > been a heck of
                  > > a lot easier for everyone, not to mention more successful an
                  > > implementation, if we'd had someone experienced on hand to guide us.
                  > >
                  > > I have found that it's one thing to read up on and totally grok XP,
                  > > but it's quite another to communicate it to management and guide an
                  > > organization in it's implementation.
                  > >
                  > > You mention that you have carte blanche on methodologies. Make sure
                  > > that you gain proper buy-in from the stakeholders. Remind them that
                  > > XP requires commitment and that there will be times when
                  > they will be
                  > > called to make good on their promises to support of XP.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > >
                  > > Tony.
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Tony Byrne
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  > >
                  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  > >
                  > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  >
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                  > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.