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RE: [XP] Motivation to Complete Stories

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  • Steve Bate
    ... Hi John, I d written a longer response but I m going to respond briefly instead since this is quickly drifting off the original topic of discussion. I
    Message 1 of 161 , Apr 1, 2005
      > From: yahoogroups@... [mailto:yahoogroups@...]
      >...
      >
      > From: "Steve Bate" <steve.at.technoetic.com@...>
      > > ...
      > >
      > > What behavior are we trying to change?
      >
      > Being too committed to the accuracy of the
      > estimates. ...

      Hi John,

      I'd written a longer response but I'm going to respond briefly
      instead since this is quickly drifting off the original topic
      of discussion.

      I agree with your comment about the accuracy
      of estimates and yet this issue seems independent
      of points or hours. Actual points completed can vary from
      estimated points for an iteration. A person who is
      unrealistic about the accuracy of estimates would have
      concern in either scenario.

      > Points and yesterday's weather explicitly separates
      > two different concerns: consistency and linearity
      > on one hand, and velocity on the other

      Yesterday's Weather and velocity applies to ideal
      time-based estimates as well. You are correct that
      additional information (like load factor or overhead)
      is available with ideal time-based estimates, but it's
      not necessary to calculate it if no one is interested.

      I'm familiar with the perspective that points support
      consistent but chronically inaccurate estimation
      behaviors. This potential benefit makes sense to me.
      However, I haven't experienced this problem on teams
      using time-based estimating. If I do work with a
      team with that problem, I'll seriously consider
      recommending abstract points as an alternative and
      we'll work with management on the accountability
      issues, if any.

      > For the managers, the explicit separation may
      > be a new experiance: not necessarily in theory,
      > but management is very heavily loaded with
      > people that learn by doing rather than from
      > a textbook.

      I've been a technical lead on several teams and
      my responsibilities overlapped with management's
      in the sense that I was responsible for providing
      initial development plans, tracking them, and
      facilitating replanning, when needed. With my
      management hat on, I can say that I personally
      strongly prefer ideal time-based estimates over
      points. One of the reasons is that it's easier
      for me to communicate time-based status to higher
      levels of the organization. In that sense, it makes
      it easier for me to be accountable. That said, I don't
      any problem with point-based approaches in general.
      I'd like to have a better understanding of what issues
      they really address and in what contexts they'd be
      the most useful. I'm skeptical about some of the
      arguments for points, but I also realize that even
      if it only increases the teams feeling of safety,
      that is worth something -- especially for a team
      that's just starting with agile methods and is
      feeling vulnerable.

      Steve
    • Ilja Preuss
      ... Good point, thanks! I suspect that, again, this isn t black or white, but that there is a balance somewhere. Need to muse about it... Regards, Ilja
      Message 161 of 161 , Apr 22, 2005
        extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > Ilja,
        >
        > Sometimes it feels nice being around people who know my
        > quirks and are willing to cut me slack around them. But, I
        > learn more and grow around people who expect me to manage
        > myself and my reactions.

        Good point, thanks!

        I suspect that, again, this isn't black or white, but that there is a
        balance somewhere. Need to muse about it...

        Regards, Ilja
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