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RE: [XP] Motivation to Complete Stories

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  • Steve Bate
    ... I ve seen the same discussions and arguments that Kent describes. I agree with you that this particular argument against time-based estimating is
    Message 1 of 161 , Apr 1, 2005
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      > From: yahoogroups@... [mailto:yahoogroups@...]
      >...
      > > An example that has come up several times recently is the conversation
      > > around points vs. hours for estimates. One repeating argument against
      > > hours for estimates goes, "...but if I tell them how many hours
      > > we actually program then they'll tell us to work more hours so I'll
      > > estimate in points so they won't tell me to work more hours." I
      > > think this is untruthful and manipulative. Choosing points for
      > > estimates to avoid a difficult discussion is ineffective in the
      > > long run, even though it might avoid the appearance of
      > > conflict at the moment.
      >
      > Um, Kent. Have you quit thinking? The arguement you're using as an
      > example is a non-sequitor. There is little to no relationship between
      > how one does the estimate and whether management is going to ask
      > for debilitating amounts of overtime. That's a characteristic of
      > particular manager's or organization's mindsets, and has nothing to
      > do with the actual facts of the situation, or the observed fact that
      > it's a counterproductive strategy.

      I've seen the same discussions and arguments that Kent describes. I
      agree with you that this particular argument against time-based
      estimating is fallacious and I didn't get the impression that Kent
      felt otherwise.

      You recently mentioned using points to avoid being a scapegoat
      in a culture of blame. Although your point was a bit vague, you
      appeared to me to be saying that using time-based estimates was
      like painting a target on your back. Maybe you can provide more
      information, but the claim that points will protect us from being
      a target in a hostile culture of blame also seems fallacious. I
      haven't had experience with using points for that purpose. Do you
      see it as a short-term or long-term solution? What are the benefits
      and risks of this strategy? Are there more productive options we
      could try or is this the best that can be done?

      Steve
    • Ilja Preuss
      ... Good point, thanks! I suspect that, again, this isn t black or white, but that there is a balance somewhere. Need to muse about it... Regards, Ilja
      Message 161 of 161 , Apr 22, 2005
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        extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > Ilja,
        >
        > Sometimes it feels nice being around people who know my
        > quirks and are willing to cut me slack around them. But, I
        > learn more and grow around people who expect me to manage
        > myself and my reactions.

        Good point, thanks!

        I suspect that, again, this isn't black or white, but that there is a
        balance somewhere. Need to muse about it...

        Regards, Ilja
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