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RE: [XP] Re: OT - Same "stupid" arguments, and old methodologies--Cindee Andres

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  • Kent Beck
    A message from Cindee: As I am not a member of this list, I asked Kent for the opportunity to respond to Ron s recent post with regard to myself. Ron: Kent
    Message 1 of 125 , Jan 31, 2005
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      A message from Cindee:

      As I am not a member of this list, I asked Kent for the opportunity to
      respond to Ron's recent post with regard to myself.

      Ron:

      Kent Beck came up with the definition and application of XP that you have
      used and publicly valued for many years. We have just released a new and
      hopefully clearer version of that definition and application. From your
      recent post it appears that you are confused about and jealous of my role in
      the writing of the new edition of Extreme Programming Explained.

      My role in the writing of this book was mainly editorial; pushing for
      clarity, thoroughness, supported claims, logic, sensible progressions and
      groupings, flow and word choice. Though the many spirited discussions and
      marked up proofs that passed between us did make for a better book, only a
      few of the better examples came from me. The ideas expressed, the voice and
      the body of the book are Kent's. This was not easy work, but I think the
      results were worth the effort.

      It seems to me that you are setting up a false dichotomy: either XP is
      Kent's definition and therefore worthless or everybody's definition and
      therefore valuable. Neither of these is necessarily true. The word "cold" is
      defined by Webster in the dictionary. However, though it may mean something
      very different in absolute temperature to someone in Norway than it does to
      someone in the Phillipines (or even between me and my best friend), that
      does not change the value of the concept defined by Webster as "cold".

      You have not coded with me, nor will you ever, because I don't code. I am a
      social scientist, not a programmer. I have been observing software
      communities and individuals for more than 20 years now. Some have found my
      insights useful in their work. I find people ever so much more interesting
      and complex than the code they write.

      Thank you for this opportunity to clarify my position with regard to
      software development and XP in particular.

      Cindee Andres

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
      To the extent that you and Cindee
      are the definers of XP, only you two can answer such questions.

      Meanwhile there are thousands of people whose ideas have been
      influenced by you and others, and they call their understanding "XP"
      as well, even though it's not the same understanding as you and
      Cindee have. If the thousands are the definers, then there is no
      definitive answer. One might say "An XP team [as I understand it]
      would NEVER do that!" while another might say "An XP team [as I
      understand it] would do that if it made sense."

      If XP were only what you and Cindee say it is, then it would be, I
      think, of little value.
    • Edmund Schweppe
      ... With appropriate reference to Kay Pentecost and her appreciation for humorous posts, as well as to your own well-known automotive preferences, might I
      Message 125 of 125 , Feb 15 7:39 PM
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        Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > I much prefer to be in close accord with
        > those I respect.

        With appropriate reference to Kay Pentecost and her appreciation for
        humorous posts, as well as to your own well-known automotive
        preferences, might I humbly suggest that he who wishes to be in close
        Accord not drive BMWs?

        --
        Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
        The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
        those of any past, present or future employer.
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