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RE: [XP] XP Survival

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  • Israel Antezana
    I really agree with you Steven Steven Gordon wrote: MDA will never be as flexible and malleable as textual code ?? Is C++ less flexible and
    Message 1 of 80 , Dec 1, 2004
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      I really agree with you Steven

      Steven Gordon <sagordon@...> wrote:
      "MDA will never be as flexible and malleable as textual code"??
      Is C++ less flexible and malleable than the sequence of 1s and 0s
      it represents in machine language?

      "and the code has to come first"??
      Does the machine language code have to come before the C++ code?
      Or are you just referring to bootstrapping - the fact that the
      first MDA tools would have to be implemented in current languages
      before subsequent generations could be built with MDA tools?

      There is no theoretical barrier to flexibility and malleablility
      in MDA. There might be business, political, and marketing barriers.
      We will never get sufficient agility unless we demand it and then
      be good customers for the iterative process of building
      sufficiently agile tools.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ramon Leon [mailto:rleon@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 2:34 PM
      To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [XP] XP Survival



      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Israel Antezana [mailto:israelantezana@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 2:22 PM
      > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [XP] XP Survival
      >
      >
      >
      > Ramon Leon wrote:
      >
      > >Whether the language is visual or textual, you still need to build a
      > >model, and the model still needs to evolve via iterations
      > and feedback,
      > >XP still applies.
      >
      > What do you think about TDD in an MDA context?

      As I just said, it doesn't matter how or where the code comes
      from, a domain model is a domain model and you won't get it right the
      first time, you'll build it iteratively, therefore XP still applies. No
      magic new tool will suddenly make you a domain expert, and programming
      is as much about learning where you misconceptions are as it is about
      writing software. XP will apply regardless of how fancy the tools get,
      it's just plain good engineering.

      MDA isn't new, people have been trying to do it for a long time,
      some people just want graphical programming. The problem remains what
      it always has been, models tend to force a particular view of how things
      should work upon the programmer, and as long as that is appropriate for
      the situation, it'll work, but MDA will never be as flexible and
      malleable as textual code, after all, the model is simply a view of the
      code... and the code has to come first. Programming isn't easy, and
      when you try and make it look easy, you fool people into thinking they
      can build things they can't, and they abuse the tools and forget what
      goes on underneath, and suddenly good architecture goes out the window.
      I don't have much faith in MDA, but to each his own.


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    • Jim Standley
      Gartner Group evaluates our Model Execution System and declares a 12 to 47 times improvement over other development approaches. So do they recommend I cut my
      Message 80 of 80 , Dec 5, 2004
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        "Gartner Group evaluates our Model Execution System and declares a 12 to
        47 times improvement over other development approaches." So do they
        recommend I cut my development budget by 92% or 98%?

        Israel Antezana wrote:
        > Steven,
        >
        > The ONME software is not a demo tool its a commercial tool ready to be used. But there is a demo about how to use this tool on its website (www.care-t.com)
        >
        > It was the first time i worked with this tool, and when worked with it I noticed it really boosted my productivity, actually this company has passed a Gartner group evaluation in which Gartner declares a 12 to 47 times improvement when using this MDA tool.
        >
        > I could use the tool in an iterative way, working in an increment on the model and generating the code in each increment with good results. Although I did not work in a test driven way, I am interested in exploring alternatives, if necessary, about using a TDD aproach in this context.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Israel Antezana
        >
        >
        >
        > Steven Gordon <sagordon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Isreal,
        >
        > Since you have actually been using this demo tool, please tell us
        > about your actuall experiences using this tool.
        >
        > Did this tool affect how you went about doing your project? Did
        > the tool make it difficult for you to implement your research
        > project one requirement at a time (or are you implementing your
        > research project in a waterfall fashion)? Did this tool help,
        > hinder, or have no effect on how you defined tests for your
        > software?
        >
        > Steven A. Gordon, Ph.D.
        > Manager, Software Factory
        > Arizona State University
        > PO Box 875506
        > Tempe, AZ 85287-9509
        > http://sf.asu.edu
        > (480)-727-6271
        >
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