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69416Re: [XP] How do agile methods survive in highly structured organisations

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  • Priyank Johri
    Feb 4, 2003
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      Ron,

      > I'm interested in understanding your actual circumstances, why you are
      > asking about this topic.
      > Are you trying XP now in such a situation? If so, what is happening to
      you?

      Yes, the 6 items I mention below apply to my situation. I'm not *trying* XP
      in this environment yet, although I would like to. I'm, however, trying to
      evaluate
      if I can use XP successfully in such in environment or not. Let me add a few
      things
      that we have been able to do on past projects and hence should be able to do
      on this new one:

      - Fairly fast integration, although only on the development machines
      - Refactoring, not all the time, but quite a bit
      - Bug (defect) tracking and feeding them back into our development cycles

      What I'm concerned about is:

      1. Tons of already existing processes which you have to work within.

      As Steve Berczuk said, I may try to fake the existing processes to an
      extent here,
      but have no way of avoiding them. So, yes, they still want the 100 page
      documents
      that typically go with such systems.

      2. Lots of legacy systems with which you have to interface and which take
      time to modify.

      You can't really do quick changes to such systems. You can only do changes
      once and then you test them and you are done.

      3. Cubes, cubes, and more cubes with no way of re-arranging furniture.

      Creating the right kind of environment is a big problem. As is, office space
      is scarce. Even if we get a C2 like environment (or war room) it would be
      difficult to argue to still have our private cubes at the same time.

      4. Customers that are all over the place spanning timezones.
      PST, CST, EST... and definitely not on-site. We typically *listen* to our
      customers
      on audio conferences or use collaboration tools like Webex.

      5. Development or even testing which is outsourced offshore (10 hr
      difference in timezone).
      Some of our testing is done in Asia..

      6. Managers who live, breathe and bathe in the *waterfall*.
      Most of the members on the project team are unlike this, but
      everybody else (including systems that you have to interface with,
      and the customers) are so full of the waterfall process, it isn't even
      funny.

      All this apart, there is still a lot of value in agile development and we'll
      try to leverage whatever we can, including:
      - Extensive unit testing
      - Refactoring
      - Constant customer feedback
      - Possibly small releases
      - Collective code ownership
      -Effective planning

      how eXtreme this will be, is another question.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>
      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:20 AM
      Subject: Re: [XP] How do agile methods survive in highly structured
      organisations


      > On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 1:38:34 AM, Priyank Johri wrote:
      >
      > > Here is what a typical large organization may have:
      >
      > > 1. Tons of already existing processes which you have to work within.
      >
      > > 2. Lots of legacy systems with which you have to interface and which
      take
      > > time
      > > to modify.
      >
      > > 3. Cubes, cubes, and more cubes with no way of re-arranging furniture.
      >
      > > 4. Customers that are all over the place spanning timezones.
      >
      > > 5. Development or even testing which is outsourced offshore (10 hr
      > > difference in timezone).
      >
      > > 6. Managers who live, breathe and bathe in the *waterfall*.
      >
      > > I'm sure others can add more. Now what do you say?
      >
      > I'm interested in understanding your actual circumstances, why you are
      > asking about this topic.
      >
      > Are you trying XP now in such a situation? If so, what is happening to
      you?
      > Are all of these circumstances in effect? Some of them? Are they affecting
      > your project? In what ways?
      >
      > If you are not trying XP in such a situation, you have described some
      > general situations which may or may not obtain. What is your concern? What
      > are your intentions?
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > Fear is the mindkiller. --Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
      >
      >
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