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158956Re: [XP] Taking it back

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  • Charlie Poole
    Feb 27, 2014
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      Hi John,


      On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 9:32 PM, John Maxwell <jmax@...> wrote:
       

      On 02/28/2014 12:22:34 AM, Charlie Poole wrote:
      >
      > Nevertheless, I don't think "pushing" an implementation on a team is
      > ever the right thing to do. It's certainly not XP.
      >
      And see, this is what I completely fail to understand. If nobody's
      advocating for XP, how does the team ever adopt it. Heck, how do they
      even know about it?

      Perhaps you mean something different by "pushing" than I do.

      IME, pushing != advocating. Pushing means someone (the boss) telling
      the team what to do. This never leads to any brand of agile, although it
      can lead to folks doing what some people call "agile practices" at least
      to a certain degree, at least until the pushing goes away.

      XP is not obvious; the current Agile position that somehow a team will
      just magically drift into doing XP, or discover something just as good,
      with no one ever saying "This is what we should be doing." is just
      baffling to me.

      There is no "Agile position" since "Agile" isn't a thing, it's an umbrella. Or
      if there is, I didn't get the memo, so I can only argue my own positions.
      Frankly, I think your "Agile position" is a convenient straw man.

      I certainly don't think that people will just magically discover XP or drift
      into doing it. I don't actually know anyone who says that and I've seen
      Ron quite clearly state the opposite.
       
      It's quite reasonable for someone to say "this is what we should do" and
      it's even agile - or Agile if you prefer. It's never reasonable to say "this
      is what you should do." Is that too fine a point? I don't think so - I think
      it actually is _the_ point.


      And if that's not the position, if it's OK to actively attempt to get a
      team to adopt XP, than why the heck do all of the guiding lights of
      Agile bend over backwards to avoid ever saying so?

      I'm not familiar with that happening, but it probably depends on whom
      you are talking about.

      IMO, it's OK to actively try to get the team to adopt XP, but only
      _if_you're_on_the_team_. Is that what you mean?

      Charlie

      -John

      --
      John Maxwell KB3VLL jmax@...

      "I prefer Hostess fruit pies to pop-up toaster tarts because they don't
      require so much cooking."
      - Miss Piggy


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