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158697Re: [XP] Examples of good acceptance test criteria

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  • Adam Sroka
    Jul 23 8:37 AM
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      On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, George Dinwiddie
      <lists@...>wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Adam,
      >
      >
      > On 7/22/13 9:21 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
      > > I'm not sure how this is a response to what I wrote. If your point is
      > that
      > > the customer needs to be the one driving the scenarios then you are
      > > preaching to the choir. Although, I would never email them the
      > scenarios. I
      > > would insist on a face-to-face conversation.
      > >
      > > I would never use Cucumber to write tests for myself or my fellow
      > > programmers. I would use something like RSpec or xUnit for that. Cucumber
      > > is for facilitating conversations with customers. If the customer is not
      > > involved then it is the wrong tool (And quite likely the wrong project.)
      >
      > I would. Sometimes I need to facilitate the conversation with myself. I
      > find that expressing the business problem in "english" is often better
      > for that than expressing it in code.
      >
      >
      Both are valid choices, and I have a lot of other friends who would do that
      too. I am a bit weary of Cucumber for at least three reasons: 1) it adds
      additional complexity to my test suite, 2) as the system grows in
      complexity step definitions can collide and this takes additional effort to
      resolve, 3) there is no guarantee that step definitions actually mean what
      the english they are matching to suggests they mean and this takes
      additional effort to ensure.

      I am willing to accept the extra work implied by those issues if my
      customer is willing to invest effort helping to write and maintain the
      Gherkin. If they aren't then I will just avoid them by using a tool that is
      closer to the code. RSpec is pretty darn close to english, and I can get
      pretty close with xUnit as well (with a few exceptions, depending on the
      specific tool.)


      > If the Customer is not involved, that's a different problem. Getting the
      > Customer involved may take more than just a BDD/ATDD tool. ;-)
      >
      >
      Absolutely, and regardless of whether I am using Cucumber or not I am not
      going to take money from a customer who isn't willing to be engaged in the
      development of their product. Some customers need their hands held just to
      write stories, others are willing to learn and maintain Gherkin, and there
      are several levels in between.


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