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  • krassimir berov
    Hi boys, Hi Rob! I subscribed to this list because I hope to learn something from all of you just by discussing whatever is discussed here. Recently (somwhere
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 30, 2005
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      Hi boys, Hi Rob!
      I subscribed to this list because I hope to learn
      something from all of you just by discussing whatever
      is discussed here.

      Recently (somwhere in March this year), I had my first
      big enough project. I made a little of the
      CRM(Customer Relationship Management) web-based System
      for a big enough company. This was the first time when
      I saw how the work on a project must be done.
      I was impressed and I have to addmit that it was hard
      for me. I have never worked this way before.

      Several days ago (I do not remember how exactly) from
      link to link I found my self on http://www.bivio.biz/
      and then on http://www.extremeperl.org/
      I thought to my self "This is what I am searching for
      since 2000"
      May be now is the time when I am able to realize it,
      but this is true.
      I just wanted somebody to teach me how to program.

      So thank You, Rob!

      PS. By the way I started translating the book to
      Bulgarian. I can not promise anything, because I do
      this in my spare time, but the Preface is almost
      ready.
      I hope to see some day this book published in
      Bulgaria.
      It certainly can be used as a manual.


      Ps:In CaseYou can not Read my Messages,
      they are usualy sent in
      Encodings such as
      Cyrillic (Windows) or UTF-8
      -----K.Berov



      __________________________________
      Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
      http://farechase.yahoo.com
    • Rob Nagler
      ... I m honored! Good luck with the translation. And, thanks for writing a message on this list. One thing you might be aware of is that we have modified
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 30, 2005
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        krassimir berov writes:
        > I hope to see some day this book published in
        > Bulgaria. It certainly can be used as a manual.

        I'm honored! Good luck with the translation. And, thanks for writing
        a message on this list.

        One thing you might be aware of is that we have modified many of the
        ideas in the book, and probably gotten even more extreme as a result.
        Here are some quick notes on the subject:

        I'm back to using index cards for stories. The story card blanks were
        under-utilized, and take space away from drawing and other free-form
        notes.

        We also don't track anything. Rather, everybody gets paid according
        to fixed bid contracts or other arrangements. It couples performance
        to economics. People learn very quickly to keep track of their own
        performance when it is directly proportional to their paycheck.

        We started doing standups to help with integration. We tend to work
        on individual projects. This causes fragmentation, and we weren't
        helping each other enough to stay motivated. The standups died out a
        few weeks ago, because I think we all are now more clearly motivated.
        Not sure.

        We pair program at about the same level we did when I wrote the book.
        It's often used for training purposes or to solve hard problems.

        Whenever I find myself *talking* about code, I try to make sure I
        leave the conference room and hit the keyboard. I can't believe how
        many times this occurs. It's very difficult to break the old habits
        of "whiteboarding" instead of just trying something.

        I am even more extreme on the functional programming than I have ever
        been. It's very important to me to eliminate any intermediate state.
        We've been augmenting bOP with many more functional structures as a
        result.

        Finally, I never wrote the logistics chapter. Well, I did write it,
        but it was too radical for many people. If there is one thing that I
        think is missing in most books about XP, it's that the release cycle
        has to be instantaneous. There can be only one version. Go live as
        quickly as possible. We release weekly and more often. Whenever we
        hold code over the weekend, we get in trouble with schedules, bugs,
        integration, etc. It's simply not worth it. This release cycle may
        not be possible in all applications, but I'm always astounded at how
        many applications could use it and don't

        I hope this helps.

        Rob
      • Rob Kinyon
        ... One thing we re starting to find useful is to write at least half of each other s unit tests. For one thing, your API has to pass someone else s eyes. This
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 30, 2005
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          > We started doing standups to help with integration. We tend to work
          > on individual projects. This causes fragmentation, and we weren't
          > helping each other enough to stay motivated. The standups died out a
          > few weeks ago, because I think we all are now more clearly motivated.
          > Not sure.
          >
          > We pair program at about the same level we did when I wrote the book.
          > It's often used for training purposes or to solve hard problems.

          One thing we're starting to find useful is to write at least half of
          each other's unit tests. For one thing, your API has to pass someone
          else's eyes. This helps both in terms of design review as well as test
          coverage. The second benefit we're discovering is reduced mental
          fatigue. You're still doing the same amount of work, but you're
          fresher because you've had a break from your project to work on
          someone else's.

          We've only done it on one project so far (Perl6::Roles), but I think
          we're going to do it a lot more now that we've found we liked it.

          Rob
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