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Re: [extremeperl] Better Development Tools for Perl

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  • Rob Kinyon
    ... Because the idea that someone with minimal experience should be building a complicated thing (road, bridge, etc) is ridiculous on its face. Except, no-one
    Message 1 of 107 , Jun 9, 2005
      > >> I am hoping that this conversation is helpful to myself and others,
      > >> especially non-wizards, who want to build medium/large projects and
      > >> get paid for it.
      > >
      > > This is something I'm going to be really rude in answering.
      > >
      >
      > Why be rude? It certainly makes it harder to understand what you are
      > trying to say.

      Because the idea that someone with minimal experience should be
      building a complicated thing (road, bridge, etc) is ridiculous on its
      face. Except, no-one seems to think so when it comes to programming.
      I'm tired of dealing with this mis-meme, and so I'm going to be rude
      when forced to answer it.

      > > People who aren't senior developers have no business building a
      > > medium/large project and getting paid for it.
      >
      > Are you equating "senior developer" with wizard?

      Yes. Wizard code has nothing to do with obfuscation or golfing or any
      of that crap. Wizard code is code written by a wizard. Often, it's
      extremely simple - sometimes so simple that you have to be a wizard to
      understand why something so simple will do what needs done. Any senior
      developer, in any language, will write wizard code.

      > > If 20+ years of Perl existence has gone by with Perl being "the glue
      > > of the Internet" and no IDE has sprung up?
      >
      > In fact, several IDE's have sprung up: Komodo and Eclipse/EPIC are
      > probably the most sophisticated but they are by no means the only ones.

      All of those began life as IDEs for other, static languages. There is,
      to my knowledge, no IDE that was developed for a dynamic language that
      has Perl bindings. The only IDE I know of that will do is the Lisp
      machine (or similar tools), but there isn't a similar item for Perl.

      > > Why do Java developers tout
      > > the power of their IDEs and not the power of their language?
      > >
      > I certainly have not seen evidence of that, perhaps that is a starw-man
      > argument?

      In my experience, most arguments for productivity in Java boil down to
      the tools you can use. Hibernate, Eclipse, Struts, Beans, J2EE ... the
      list goes on and on. In fact, I think I know the names of more Java
      frameworks than Perl ones! To me, that says something negative about
      Java.

      Note: I am not an expert in Java by any means. I am a complete
      outsider who's trying to figure out why Java developers have felt the
      need to create so many frameworks and tools, yet most Java projects
      seem to be less agile than the Perl projects I've worked on. This
      impression has been building over 5 years across companies both large
      (Motorola, Verizon, Bank One) and small in 4 states.

      > > Answer those questions and maybe you'll start to convince me that an
      > > IDE for Perl is worthwhile.
      > >
      >
      > Perl IDE's exist, I am arguing that they must get better or Perl's
      > market share will dwindle, a lot and quickly.

      I have heard doom'n'gloom about Perl's marketshare, mindshare, and
      similar -shares for years. Yet, the development community seems to be
      just as vibrant as ever. And, more importantly to me - I feed my
      family by developing in Perl and have no worries about the future
      viability of doing so for the next 5+ years.

      Rob
    • Siegfried Heintze
      Since there was a helpful discussion some time ago on USB keyboards and mice for pair programming that was not specific to perl, I wanted to solicit the group
      Message 107 of 107 , Feb 13, 2006
        Since there was a helpful discussion some time ago on USB keyboards and mice
        for pair programming that was not specific to perl, I wanted to solicit the
        group for information on network software (also not specific to perl).



        I just set up openVPN on my openwrt/WRT54G router for pair programming with
        a headset and skype.



        (1) Can any point me to the documentation on sharing desktops on windows? I
        need to create accounts on Win2003 XP Server. When I created an account
        belonging only to the user group, my partner could not log in. He was
        receiving some error message about not being permitted to log in
        interactively. However, when I added the administrator group (reluctantly)
        to his account, he could log in. Is there a tutorial somewhere on the web
        for creating user accounts in windows for use with remote desktop logins on
        VPNs?



        (2) How do I share my remote desktop setting with a programming pair
        partner?



        (3) What about sharing sessions when I'm booted with linux? I think there is
        a vnc program out there, but I don't know how to use it. I'll need to learn
        how to create accounts and share linux desktops with remote VPN users. Is
        there a tutorial on this?



        (4) Are video cams very helpful for pair programming?



        It seems that this kind of knowledge would be very common for pair
        programmers.



        Thanks,

        Siegfried



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