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Re: [extremeperl] Better Development Tools for Perl

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  • Perrin Harkins
    I want to say first that I would welcome improvements to Perl coding tools. For example, the existence of perltidy has been a big plus for me in recent years,
    Message 1 of 107 , Jun 5 8:49 PM
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      I want to say first that I would welcome improvements to Perl coding
      tools. For example, the existence of perltidy has been a big plus for
      me in recent years, and means that no one has an excuse for poorly
      formatted code anymore. That's a big win.

      However, I think you would have an easier time getting South Korea to
      hand over their nukes than getting a seasoned vim or emacs user to
      switch to a different editor. Tools like vim and emacs are IDEs already
      if you are a power user of them.

      > That implies to me that the Java folks were not taking good advantage
      > of the tools available to them - they could have done a better job if
      > they had, and that the Perl folks (like you and I :-) did the best they
      > could with what is available.

      To me it implies that none of this stuff is really a big deal, i.e. even
      the people who have it don't make much use of it. However, I might
      think differently if I had ever been at a job where people actively used
      automated refactoring.

      > I will say
      > that using JUnit from within Eclipse is pretty damn easy so I'm not so
      > sure about Test::More being easier

      I haven't used it from within Eclipse, so maybe that does make the
      difference. It's hard for me to imagine anything being significantly
      easier than Test::More, but Eclipse may make it a tie.

      > Hmm, you are suggesting that effort be spent changing the culture,
      > getting people to stop "polluting the commons" in a way. I'd like to
      > hear more about that approach. I'm suggesting that if we make the tools
      > way better - yes, automated refactoring support *and all that goes with
      > that* then people will use the better tools (but only if the tools are
      > way better than vim/emacs/textpad etc.) and the result will be more
      > effective projects overall. If we can make good changes in the culture
      > *and* in the tools that would be best.

      I'm not sure I want to start a whole discussion about coding style, but
      I do think you'll essentially have to fight both battles at once,
      because no automated refactoring will ever work on the kind of perl code
      that is a major part of the current perl culture.

      Take Class::DBI for example. If you open up the hood, you find tons of
      symbol table manipulation, closures left and right, use of the "mixin"
      approach of automatically defining methods in other people's modules
      when a class is used, and probably other things that no editor is going
      to grok. These are not practices that I encourage, but they are in
      fairly common use by people who consider themselves good perl coders, as
      you will quickly see if you post something negative about techniques
      like this in a place like perlmonks.org. I have actually had people
      tell me that perltidy couldn't parse their code and they felt that this
      was a problem with perltidy rather than with the insane code they were
      writing.

      So, new tools can only succeed if you can convince people that the
      collected wisdom in books like Code Complete really does apply to perl
      too and they should turn down the insane-o-meter a little in exchange
      for some help from new programming tools.

      That was a little more long-winded than I meant it to be, so I'll stop
      there.

      - Perrin
    • Siegfried Heintze
      Since there was a helpful discussion some time ago on USB keyboards and mice for pair programming that was not specific to perl, I wanted to solicit the group
      Message 107 of 107 , Feb 13, 2006
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        Since there was a helpful discussion some time ago on USB keyboards and mice
        for pair programming that was not specific to perl, I wanted to solicit the
        group for information on network software (also not specific to perl).



        I just set up openVPN on my openwrt/WRT54G router for pair programming with
        a headset and skype.



        (1) Can any point me to the documentation on sharing desktops on windows? I
        need to create accounts on Win2003 XP Server. When I created an account
        belonging only to the user group, my partner could not log in. He was
        receiving some error message about not being permitted to log in
        interactively. However, when I added the administrator group (reluctantly)
        to his account, he could log in. Is there a tutorial somewhere on the web
        for creating user accounts in windows for use with remote desktop logins on
        VPNs?



        (2) How do I share my remote desktop setting with a programming pair
        partner?



        (3) What about sharing sessions when I'm booted with linux? I think there is
        a vnc program out there, but I don't know how to use it. I'll need to learn
        how to create accounts and share linux desktops with remote VPN users. Is
        there a tutorial on this?



        (4) Are video cams very helpful for pair programming?



        It seems that this kind of knowledge would be very common for pair
        programmers.



        Thanks,

        Siegfried



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