Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [existlist] war and peace

Expand Messages
  • Charles
    eduard, I am not advocating a constant state of war; I am not the lawyer of becoming , which is the continuous struggle of one man against another; it is the
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      eduard,

      I am not advocating a constant state of war;
      I am not the lawyer of "becoming", which is
      the continuous
      struggle of one man against another; it is
      the law of nature ( a continuous current of
      electricity without
      interference of space or time?) Hostile is
      nature, hostile is wisdom herself, hostile is
      life. The contemporary
      state of confusion in this respect is a
      simple example. Peace, on the other hand, is
      just an empty and
      meaningless word like justice and freedom, no
      to mention equality. And the character of a
      nation can be
      judged by the way they manage to survive, and
      more importantly, by the way they treat the
      delicacy,
      fineness, and pleasant appearance of the
      female of the species. (call me old fashion.)

      Charles

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "eduard" <yeoman@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:44 PM
      Subject: [existlist] war and peace


      Charles,

      <<< (peace is the hidding place of the weak
      and
      efeminate).>>>

      I presume that you are advocating a constant
      state
      of war; to make us strong and manly. Or have
      I
      mis-interpreted??

      eduard


      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

      Our Home:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      (Includes community book list, chat, and
      more.)

      TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
      to:
      existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • eduard
      Charles, I am not understanding. On the one hand you are stating that, Hostile is nature, hostile is wisdom herself, hostile is life. And yet on the other
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Charles,

        I am not understanding.

        On the one hand you are stating that, "Hostile is
        nature, hostile is wisdom herself, hostile is
        life."

        And yet on the other you mention that, "And the
        character of a nation can be judged by the way
        they manage to survive, and
        more importantly, by the way they treat the
        delicacy, fineness, and pleasant appearance of the
        female of the species."

        The two would seem to be contradictory. Hostility
        in life is represented by the abusive manner in
        which we treat others. A proper treatment of
        women is inherent in a peaceful society. Although
        we tend to think that there is progress in war
        years because of the development of military
        weapons that are later applied to civil use, the
        truth is that in times of peace there is also
        advancement which sustains a society.

        Although the word "peace" is abstract, in the same
        sense as "justice" and "freedom", the state of
        peace itself is not empty and meaningless. Rather
        it is the normal condition of man which is often
        interrupted by war.

        eduard
      • Bill Harris
        Charles, I really like what you say. Having said that I must sulk off in guilt for rejecting the better angels I was brainwashed to accept. Were there a
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 2, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Charles, I really like what you say. Having said that I must sulk off in
          guilt for rejecting the "better angels" I was brainwashed to accept.
          Were there a hell, the Spartans would certainly be there and they would be
          enjoying it immensely. They would be joined by republicans, nazis,
          confederates, Romans and other male dominated associations. The murderous
          mass would engage in an eternal , lethal game of king of the hill. I would
          like to be there myself because it is so simple and honest. It is the life
          of the hunter, not the gatherer. To exert, in one`s own behalf, is at the
          clean base of existence. Feel the power of the wvermaxct in public
          gymnasium . Marching, fighting, killing, drinking and a sound sleep with
          one`s comrades.
          Now it is back to the created reality of our present. I should smile and
          assent to the weak madness of the girley-boys. I should be a good democrat
          and work endlessly to help the weak and oppressed. I should act like a
          fucking cunt and pretend I care. I should be quiet, and respect the rights
          others have not earned, OR-----
          I should live in this dichotomous world, without direction. Bill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and Reason


          > Bill,
          >
          > I am still fighting with stupidity, no with
          > death. To wage a war on stupidity one has to
          > be a brave stupid.
          > All this is about politics; a radical
          > Democrat like yourself could start by
          > explaining to me the differences
          > between the two main polical parties in this
          > country, if there are any. The Spartans can
          > go to hell. ("war
          > is the father of all and king of all"). Even
          > at the lowest level of society, lets say,
          > marriage or personal
          > relatioships, means a constant reasurance for
          > superiority, for being in power, for getting
          > the upper hand,
          > for being better than others, for WAR. (peace
          > is the hidding place of the weak and
          > efeminate).
          >
          > Charles
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Bill Harris"
          > <valleywestdental@...>
          > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
          > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
          > Reason
          >
          >
          > Charles, War seems to take it`s portion, no
          > matter what. In a lifetime it is
          > truly a feat to avoid war. But then you are a
          > coward, Right?
          > The Spartans would give up their marriage
          > bed to a man of greater worth as
          > a warrior. But even warriors must sleep, you
          > cant just fuck and fight. War
          > can come at night and kill you when your
          > sword is sheathed. Were you a
          > warrior with that death? Bill
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
          > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:34 PM
          > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
          > Reason
          >
          >
          > > Bill,
          > >
          > > War is what life is all about. You still
          > seem
          > > to be dreaming about that idealistic
          > Repubilc
          > > of the philosopher
          > > King ( Democrats in power are just as
          > stupid
          > > as the Republicans ). Either politician
          > > enjoys the comforts of
          > > his own possessions and riches, while
          > > preaching poverty in front of the
          > parliament
          > > or congress. ( I might just
          > > as well become a Catholic priest). A little
          > > sense of history might do the trick.
          > >
          > > Charles
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Bill Harris"
          > > <valleywestdental@...>
          > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:18 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
          > > Reason
          > >
          > >
          > > Eduard, War on this , war on that. When
          > will
          > > we have a war on stupidity?
          > > Bill
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "eduard" <yeoman@...>
          > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:42 AM
          > > Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
          > > Reason
          > >
          > >
          > > > Bill,
          > > >
          > > > I saw it on PBS channel.
          > > >
          > > > Everyone has a mind-set. It was
          > > interesting to
          > > > note that the North was not that keen on
          > > freeing
          > > > the slaves. The proclamation almost did
          > > them in.
          > > > To the North, the issue was jobs. Thus
          > the
          > > cause
          > > > of the riots in New York in 1863 or
          > > thereabouts.
          > > > It is amazing ... a lesser treatment of
          > any
          > > > segment of society never works out.
          > > Slavery had
          > > > been long shown to financially
          > > disadvantageous,
          > > > but once it becomes part of a culture,
          > then
          > > it is
          > > > difficult to see one's way to getting rid
          > > of it.
          > > > The same could be said for the cultural
          > > mind-set
          > > > which is being generated in the so-called
          > > war on
          > > > terrorism.
          > > >
          > > > eduard
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: Bill Harris
          > > > [mailto:valleywestdental@...]
          > > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:01 AM
          > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
          > > Reason
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > James, I recently finished my third
          > viewing
          > > of Ken
          > > > Burns "The Civil War" .
          > > > It is a sobering series that elicits a
          > > great many
          > > > thoughts.
          > > > i tend to think tt confederates are more
          > > > conditioned[mid brain] than
          > > > anything. their strong, intense
          > background
          > > their
          > > > whole lives in radical,
          > > > slave owning states is also a major
          > > contributing
          > > > factor. it is a closed,
          > > > secessionist society they live in, and
          > > > rebellious slave owning is their
          > > > only world, and their whole world.
          > > > There is no moral justification for war,
          > > there is
          > > > propaganda to fuel the
          > > > fires of homicidal emotion. It is a
          > > survivalist,
          > > > bottom line enterprise of
          > > > death. Bill
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Our Home:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
          > > more.)
          > > >
          > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
          > > email to:
          > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
          > >
          > > Our Home:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
          > > more.)
          > >
          > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
          > email
          > > to:
          > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Our Home:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
          > more.)
          > >
          > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
          > email to:
          > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
          >
          > Our Home:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and
          > more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
          > to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Charles
          ... From: Bill Harris To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [existlist] Re:
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 2, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bill Harris"
            <valleywestdental@...>
            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:51 AM
            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
            Reason


            Charles, I really like what you say. Having
            said that I must sulk off in
            guilt for rejecting the "better angels" I was
            brainwashed to accept.
            Were there a hell, the Spartans would
            certainly be there and they would be
            enjoying it immensely. They would be joined
            by republicans, nazis,
            confederates, Romans and other male dominated
            associations. The murderous
            mass would engage in an eternal , lethal game
            of king of the hill. I would
            like to be there myself because it is so
            simple and honest. It is the life
            of the hunter, not the gatherer. To exert, in
            one`s own behalf, is at the
            clean base of existence. Feel the power of
            the wvermaxct in public
            gymnasium . Marching, fighting, killing,
            drinking and a sound sleep with
            one`s comrades.
            Now it is back to the created reality of our
            present. I should smile and
            assent to the weak madness of the
            girley-boys. I should be a good democrat
            and work endlessly to help the weak and
            oppressed. I should act like a
            fucking cunt and pretend I care. I should be
            quiet, and respect the rights
            others have not earned, OR-----
            I should live in this dichotomous world,
            without direction. Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:21 PM
            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
            Reason


            > Bill,
            >
            > I am still fighting with stupidity, no with
            > death. To wage a war on stupidity one has
            to
            > be a brave stupid.
            > All this is about politics; a radical
            > Democrat like yourself could start by
            > explaining to me the differences
            > between the two main polical parties in
            this
            > country, if there are any. The Spartans can
            > go to hell. ("war
            > is the father of all and king of all").
            Even
            > at the lowest level of society, lets say,
            > marriage or personal
            > relatioships, means a constant reasurance
            for
            > superiority, for being in power, for
            getting
            > the upper hand,
            > for being better than others, for WAR.
            (peace
            > is the hidding place of the weak and
            > efeminate).
            >
            > Charles
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Bill Harris"
            > <valleywestdental@...>
            > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
            > Reason
            >
            >
            > Charles, War seems to take it`s portion, no
            > matter what. In a lifetime it is
            > truly a feat to avoid war. But then you are
            a
            > coward, Right?
            > The Spartans would give up their marriage
            > bed to a man of greater worth as
            > a warrior. But even warriors must sleep,
            you
            > cant just fuck and fight. War
            > can come at night and kill you when your
            > sword is sheathed. Were you a
            > warrior with that death? Bill
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
            > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:34 PM
            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
            > Reason
            >
            >
            > > Bill,
            > >
            > > War is what life is all about. You still
            > seem
            > > to be dreaming about that idealistic
            > Repubilc
            > > of the philosopher
            > > King ( Democrats in power are just as
            > stupid
            > > as the Republicans ). Either politician
            > > enjoys the comforts of
            > > his own possessions and riches, while
            > > preaching poverty in front of the
            > parliament
            > > or congress. ( I might just
            > > as well become a Catholic priest). A
            little
            > > sense of history might do the trick.
            > >
            > > Charles
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Bill Harris"
            > > <valleywestdental@...>
            > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:18 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
            > > Reason
            > >
            > >
            > > Eduard, War on this , war on that. When
            > will
            > > we have a war on stupidity?
            > > Bill
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "eduard" <yeoman@...>
            > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:42 AM
            > > Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
            > > Reason
            > >
            > >
            > > > Bill,
            > > >
            > > > I saw it on PBS channel.
            > > >
            > > > Everyone has a mind-set. It was
            > > interesting to
            > > > note that the North was not that keen
            on
            > > freeing
            > > > the slaves. The proclamation almost
            did
            > > them in.
            > > > To the North, the issue was jobs. Thus
            > the
            > > cause
            > > > of the riots in New York in 1863 or
            > > thereabouts.
            > > > It is amazing ... a lesser treatment of
            > any
            > > > segment of society never works out.
            > > Slavery had
            > > > been long shown to financially
            > > disadvantageous,
            > > > but once it becomes part of a culture,
            > then
            > > it is
            > > > difficult to see one's way to getting
            rid
            > > of it.
            > > > The same could be said for the cultural
            > > mind-set
            > > > which is being generated in the
            so-called
            > > war on
            > > > terrorism.
            > > >
            > > > eduard
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: Bill Harris
            > > > [mailto:valleywestdental@...]
            > > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:01
            AM
            > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing
            and
            > > Reason
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > James, I recently finished my third
            > viewing
            > > of Ken
            > > > Burns "The Civil War" .
            > > > It is a sobering series that elicits a
            > > great many
            > > > thoughts.
            > > > i tend to think tt confederates are
            more
            > > > conditioned[mid brain] than
            > > > anything. their strong, intense
            > background
            > > their
            > > > whole lives in radical,
            > > > slave owning states is also a major
            > > contributing
            > > > factor. it is a closed,
            > > > secessionist society they live in, and
            > > > rebellious slave owning is their
            > > > only world, and their whole world.
            > > > There is no moral justification for
            war,
            > > there is
            > > > propaganda to fuel the
            > > > fires of homicidal emotion. It is a
            > > survivalist,
            > > > bottom line enterprise of
            > > > death. Bill
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Our Home:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > > > (Includes community book list, chat,
            and
            > > more.)
            > > >
            > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
            > > email to:
            > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
            > >
            > > Our Home:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
            > > more.)
            > >
            > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
            > email
            > > to:
            > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Our Home:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
            > more.)
            > >
            > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
            > email to:
            > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
            >
            > Our Home:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > (Includes community book list, chat, and
            > more.)
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
            email
            > to:
            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Our Home:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > (Includes community book list, chat, and
            more.)
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
            email to:
            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >


            ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

            Our Home:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            (Includes community book list, chat, and
            more.)

            TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
            to:
            existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Charles
            Bill, You are right. You should be quiet and respect the rights others have not earned. Or you could be like a Spartan, and go to heaven. ( and don t forget
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 2, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Bill,

              You are right. You should be quiet and
              respect the rights others have not earned. Or
              you could be like a
              Spartan, and go to heaven. ( and don't forget
              eduard).

              Charles


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Bill Harris"
              <valleywestdental@...>
              To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:51 AM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
              Reason


              Charles, I really like what you say. Having
              said that I must sulk off in
              guilt for rejecting the "better angels" I was
              brainwashed to accept.
              Were there a hell, the Spartans would
              certainly be there and they would be
              enjoying it immensely. They would be joined
              by republicans, nazis,
              confederates, Romans and other male dominated
              associations. The murderous
              mass would engage in an eternal , lethal game
              of king of the hill. I would
              like to be there myself because it is so
              simple and honest. It is the life
              of the hunter, not the gatherer. To exert, in
              one`s own behalf, is at the
              clean base of existence. Feel the power of
              the wvermaxct in public
              gymnasium . Marching, fighting, killing,
              drinking and a sound sleep with
              one`s comrades.
              Now it is back to the created reality of our
              present. I should smile and
              assent to the weak madness of the
              girley-boys. I should be a good democrat
              and work endlessly to help the weak and
              oppressed. I should act like a
              fucking cunt and pretend I care. I should be
              quiet, and respect the rights
              others have not earned, OR-----
              I should live in this dichotomous world,
              without direction. Bill
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
              To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:21 PM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
              Reason


              > Bill,
              >
              > I am still fighting with stupidity, no with
              > death. To wage a war on stupidity one has
              to
              > be a brave stupid.
              > All this is about politics; a radical
              > Democrat like yourself could start by
              > explaining to me the differences
              > between the two main polical parties in
              this
              > country, if there are any. The Spartans can
              > go to hell. ("war
              > is the father of all and king of all").
              Even
              > at the lowest level of society, lets say,
              > marriage or personal
              > relatioships, means a constant reasurance
              for
              > superiority, for being in power, for
              getting
              > the upper hand,
              > for being better than others, for WAR.
              (peace
              > is the hidding place of the weak and
              > efeminate).
              >
              > Charles
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Bill Harris"
              > <valleywestdental@...>
              > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
              > Reason
              >
              >
              > Charles, War seems to take it`s portion, no
              > matter what. In a lifetime it is
              > truly a feat to avoid war. But then you are
              a
              > coward, Right?
              > The Spartans would give up their marriage
              > bed to a man of greater worth as
              > a warrior. But even warriors must sleep,
              you
              > cant just fuck and fight. War
              > can come at night and kill you when your
              > sword is sheathed. Were you a
              > warrior with that death? Bill
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
              > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:34 PM
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
              > Reason
              >
              >
              > > Bill,
              > >
              > > War is what life is all about. You still
              > seem
              > > to be dreaming about that idealistic
              > Repubilc
              > > of the philosopher
              > > King ( Democrats in power are just as
              > stupid
              > > as the Republicans ). Either politician
              > > enjoys the comforts of
              > > his own possessions and riches, while
              > > preaching poverty in front of the
              > parliament
              > > or congress. ( I might just
              > > as well become a Catholic priest). A
              little
              > > sense of history might do the trick.
              > >
              > > Charles
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Bill Harris"
              > > <valleywestdental@...>
              > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:18 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
              > > Reason
              > >
              > >
              > > Eduard, War on this , war on that. When
              > will
              > > we have a war on stupidity?
              > > Bill
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "eduard" <yeoman@...>
              > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:42 AM
              > > Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
              > > Reason
              > >
              > >
              > > > Bill,
              > > >
              > > > I saw it on PBS channel.
              > > >
              > > > Everyone has a mind-set. It was
              > > interesting to
              > > > note that the North was not that keen
              on
              > > freeing
              > > > the slaves. The proclamation almost
              did
              > > them in.
              > > > To the North, the issue was jobs. Thus
              > the
              > > cause
              > > > of the riots in New York in 1863 or
              > > thereabouts.
              > > > It is amazing ... a lesser treatment of
              > any
              > > > segment of society never works out.
              > > Slavery had
              > > > been long shown to financially
              > > disadvantageous,
              > > > but once it becomes part of a culture,
              > then
              > > it is
              > > > difficult to see one's way to getting
              rid
              > > of it.
              > > > The same could be said for the cultural
              > > mind-set
              > > > which is being generated in the
              so-called
              > > war on
              > > > terrorism.
              > > >
              > > > eduard
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: Bill Harris
              > > > [mailto:valleywestdental@...]
              > > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:01
              AM
              > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing
              and
              > > Reason
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > James, I recently finished my third
              > viewing
              > > of Ken
              > > > Burns "The Civil War" .
              > > > It is a sobering series that elicits a
              > > great many
              > > > thoughts.
              > > > i tend to think tt confederates are
              more
              > > > conditioned[mid brain] than
              > > > anything. their strong, intense
              > background
              > > their
              > > > whole lives in radical,
              > > > slave owning states is also a major
              > > contributing
              > > > factor. it is a closed,
              > > > secessionist society they live in, and
              > > > rebellious slave owning is their
              > > > only world, and their whole world.
              > > > There is no moral justification for
              war,
              > > there is
              > > > propaganda to fuel the
              > > > fires of homicidal emotion. It is a
              > > survivalist,
              > > > bottom line enterprise of
              > > > death. Bill
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Our Home:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > > > (Includes community book list, chat,
              and
              > > more.)
              > > >
              > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
              > > email to:
              > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
              > >
              > > Our Home:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
              > > more.)
              > >
              > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
              > email
              > > to:
              > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Our Home:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
              > more.)
              > >
              > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
              > email to:
              > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
              >
              > Our Home:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and
              > more.)
              >
              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
              email
              > to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Our Home:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and
              more.)
              >
              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
              email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >


              ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

              Our Home:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              (Includes community book list, chat, and
              more.)

              TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
              to:
              existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Bill Harris
              Charles, Do not go quietly into that good night Bill ... From: Charles To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 3, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Charles,"Do not go quietly into that good night" Bill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:48 PM
                Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and Reason


                > Bill,
                >
                > You are right. You should be quiet and
                > respect the rights others have not earned. Or
                > you could be like a
                > Spartan, and go to heaven. ( and don't forget
                > eduard).
                >
                > Charles
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Bill Harris"
                > <valleywestdental@...>
                > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:51 AM
                > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
                > Reason
                >
                >
                > Charles, I really like what you say. Having
                > said that I must sulk off in
                > guilt for rejecting the "better angels" I was
                > brainwashed to accept.
                > Were there a hell, the Spartans would
                > certainly be there and they would be
                > enjoying it immensely. They would be joined
                > by republicans, nazis,
                > confederates, Romans and other male dominated
                > associations. The murderous
                > mass would engage in an eternal , lethal game
                > of king of the hill. I would
                > like to be there myself because it is so
                > simple and honest. It is the life
                > of the hunter, not the gatherer. To exert, in
                > one`s own behalf, is at the
                > clean base of existence. Feel the power of
                > the wvermaxct in public
                > gymnasium . Marching, fighting, killing,
                > drinking and a sound sleep with
                > one`s comrades.
                > Now it is back to the created reality of our
                > present. I should smile and
                > assent to the weak madness of the
                > girley-boys. I should be a good democrat
                > and work endlessly to help the weak and
                > oppressed. I should act like a
                > fucking cunt and pretend I care. I should be
                > quiet, and respect the rights
                > others have not earned, OR-----
                > I should live in this dichotomous world,
                > without direction. Bill
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
                > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:21 PM
                > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
                > Reason
                >
                >
                > > Bill,
                > >
                > > I am still fighting with stupidity, no with
                > > death. To wage a war on stupidity one has
                > to
                > > be a brave stupid.
                > > All this is about politics; a radical
                > > Democrat like yourself could start by
                > > explaining to me the differences
                > > between the two main polical parties in
                > this
                > > country, if there are any. The Spartans can
                > > go to hell. ("war
                > > is the father of all and king of all").
                > Even
                > > at the lowest level of society, lets say,
                > > marriage or personal
                > > relatioships, means a constant reasurance
                > for
                > > superiority, for being in power, for
                > getting
                > > the upper hand,
                > > for being better than others, for WAR.
                > (peace
                > > is the hidding place of the weak and
                > > efeminate).
                > >
                > > Charles
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Bill Harris"
                > > <valleywestdental@...>
                > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:13 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
                > > Reason
                > >
                > >
                > > Charles, War seems to take it`s portion, no
                > > matter what. In a lifetime it is
                > > truly a feat to avoid war. But then you are
                > a
                > > coward, Right?
                > > The Spartans would give up their marriage
                > > bed to a man of greater worth as
                > > a warrior. But even warriors must sleep,
                > you
                > > cant just fuck and fight. War
                > > can come at night and kill you when your
                > > sword is sheathed. Were you a
                > > warrior with that death? Bill
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Charles" <cvas2002@...>
                > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:34 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
                > > Reason
                > >
                > >
                > > > Bill,
                > > >
                > > > War is what life is all about. You still
                > > seem
                > > > to be dreaming about that idealistic
                > > Repubilc
                > > > of the philosopher
                > > > King ( Democrats in power are just as
                > > stupid
                > > > as the Republicans ). Either politician
                > > > enjoys the comforts of
                > > > his own possessions and riches, while
                > > > preaching poverty in front of the
                > > parliament
                > > > or congress. ( I might just
                > > > as well become a Catholic priest). A
                > little
                > > > sense of history might do the trick.
                > > >
                > > > Charles
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: "Bill Harris"
                > > > <valleywestdental@...>
                > > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:18 AM
                > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
                > > > Reason
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Eduard, War on this , war on that. When
                > > will
                > > > we have a war on stupidity?
                > > > Bill
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: "eduard" <yeoman@...>
                > > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:42 AM
                > > > Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: Choosing and
                > > > Reason
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > > Bill,
                > > > >
                > > > > I saw it on PBS channel.
                > > > >
                > > > > Everyone has a mind-set. It was
                > > > interesting to
                > > > > note that the North was not that keen
                > on
                > > > freeing
                > > > > the slaves. The proclamation almost
                > did
                > > > them in.
                > > > > To the North, the issue was jobs. Thus
                > > the
                > > > cause
                > > > > of the riots in New York in 1863 or
                > > > thereabouts.
                > > > > It is amazing ... a lesser treatment of
                > > any
                > > > > segment of society never works out.
                > > > Slavery had
                > > > > been long shown to financially
                > > > disadvantageous,
                > > > > but once it becomes part of a culture,
                > > then
                > > > it is
                > > > > difficult to see one's way to getting
                > rid
                > > > of it.
                > > > > The same could be said for the cultural
                > > > mind-set
                > > > > which is being generated in the
                > so-called
                > > > war on
                > > > > terrorism.
                > > > >
                > > > > eduard
                > > > >
                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > From: Bill Harris
                > > > > [mailto:valleywestdental@...]
                > > > > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:01
                > AM
                > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Choosing
                > and
                > > > Reason
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > James, I recently finished my third
                > > viewing
                > > > of Ken
                > > > > Burns "The Civil War" .
                > > > > It is a sobering series that elicits a
                > > > great many
                > > > > thoughts.
                > > > > i tend to think tt confederates are
                > more
                > > > > conditioned[mid brain] than
                > > > > anything. their strong, intense
                > > background
                > > > their
                > > > > whole lives in radical,
                > > > > slave owning states is also a major
                > > > contributing
                > > > > factor. it is a closed,
                > > > > secessionist society they live in, and
                > > > > rebellious slave owning is their
                > > > > only world, and their whole world.
                > > > > There is no moral justification for
                > war,
                > > > there is
                > > > > propaganda to fuel the
                > > > > fires of homicidal emotion. It is a
                > > > survivalist,
                > > > > bottom line enterprise of
                > > > > death. Bill
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Our Home:
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > > > (Includes community book list, chat,
                > and
                > > > more.)
                > > > >
                > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                > > > email to:
                > > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >
                > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                > > >
                > > > Our Home:
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                > > > more.)
                > > >
                > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                > > email
                > > > to:
                > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Our Home:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                > > more.)
                > > >
                > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                > > email to:
                > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                > >
                > > Our Home:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                > > more.)
                > >
                > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                > email
                > > to:
                > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Our Home:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                > more.)
                > >
                > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                > email to:
                > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                >
                > Our Home:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                > more.)
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
                > to:
                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • james tan
                the question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality ur answer emphasise on the WHY but my emphasis was on the SUCH or why this particular
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 9, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  "the question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality"


                  ur answer emphasise on the WHY but my emphasis was on the SUCH or why this
                  particular morality. i know tt morality theory is to help making moral
                  decision. pretty obvious, isnt it?

                  james.


                  From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@...>
                  Reply-To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
                  To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                  Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:06:51 -0700

                  James said:
                  >>the
                  question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality.<<

                  Obviously, to make moral decisions.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: james tan
                  Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:48 AM
                  To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason


                  chris said:
                  "if he had employed a consequentialist morality, the problem may have been
                  resolvable through a rational method of decision."

                  but this begs the question. it is not so much tt sartre did not think of the
                  consequences as in what kind of consequences one wants, which bring us back
                  to values. and if there is such a thing as a consequentialist morality, the
                  question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality.

                  james.

                  From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@...>
                  Reply-To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
                  To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                  Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:48:24 -0700

                  It is also noteworthy that Sartre considers the problem from essentially
                  only a deontological point of view. He compares Christian with Kantian
                  values and concludes that they do not resolve the conflict and that
                  therefore there is no rational way to resolve the conflict. However, if he
                  had employed a consequentialist morality, the problem may have been
                  resolvable through a rational method of decision. The utilitarian would
                  have chosen that course of action which maximizes the greatest amount of
                  happiness for the most number of people. If the choice is between making
                  only one person (the mother) happy as opposed to making many people (say the
                  village that one might liberate as a member of the French Army in exile)
                  happy, the choice would be clear and that would be a rational way of
                  deciding what to do. And, even approaching the issue from a
                  non-consequentialist point of view that focuses on say "what we care about",
                  the problem can enriched by considering some of the additional factors that
                  SWM points out. Can the mother get along without the son, or would she die
                  if he went off to fight? Do the students peers want him to join them, and
                  thereby make a unit of true comrades? Perhaps here Sartre has really
                  exaggerated the importance of making an unprincipled or radical choice.
                  There appears to be substantial reason to think that Sartre has given up on
                  reason far too soon.




                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
                • James Martin
                  james tan wrote: the question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality ur answer emphasise on the WHY but my emphasis was on the SUCH or why
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 10, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    james tan wrote:

                    "the question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality"


                    ur answer emphasise on the WHY but my emphasis was on the SUCH or why this
                    particular morality. i know tt morality theory is to help making moral
                    decision. pretty obvious, isnt it?

                    james.


                    From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@...>
                    Reply-To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
                    To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                    Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:06:51 -0700

                    James said:
                    >>the
                    question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality.<<

                    Obviously, to make moral decisions.


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: james tan
                    Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:48 AM
                    To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason


                    chris said:
                    "if he had employed a consequentialist morality, the problem may have been
                    resolvable through a rational method of decision."

                    but this begs the question. it is not so much tt sartre did not think of the
                    consequences as in what kind of consequences one wants, which bring us back
                    to values. and if there is such a thing as a consequentialist morality, the
                    question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality.

                    james.

                    From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@...>
                    Reply-To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
                    To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                    Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:48:24 -0700

                    It is also noteworthy that Sartre considers the problem from essentially
                    only a deontological point of view. He compares Christian with Kantian
                    values and concludes that they do not resolve the conflict and that
                    therefore there is no rational way to resolve the conflict. However, if he
                    had employed a consequentialist morality, the problem may have been
                    resolvable through a rational method of decision. The utilitarian would
                    have chosen that course of action which maximizes the greatest amount of
                    happiness for the most number of people. If the choice is between making
                    only one person (the mother) happy as opposed to making many people (say the
                    village that one might liberate as a member of the French Army in exile)
                    happy, the choice would be clear and that would be a rational way of
                    deciding what to do. And, even approaching the issue from a
                    non-consequentialist point of view that focuses on say "what we care about",
                    the problem can enriched by considering some of the additional factors that
                    SWM points out. Can the mother get along without the son, or would she die
                    if he went off to fight? Do the students peers want him to join them, and
                    thereby make a unit of true comrades? Perhaps here Sartre has really
                    exaggerated the importance of making an unprincipled or radical choice.
                    There appears to be substantial reason to think that Sartre has given up on
                    reason far too soon.

                    Jamar wrote,Morlity as we haevs come to know,has evoled over the years. We have so many sub-groups that we cannot ignore any more.And with that said, morality is the conerstone of this and any society, without it we will an anarchist type of being.

                    Jamar




                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



                    Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

                    Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                    (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

                    TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                    existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    ---------------------------------
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
                    faith.yahoo.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • SKIBO79
                    I think that Sartre did a good job to see that choices are neither rational or irrational. Each choice that we make , for me, comes to the decision on if life
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 10, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I think that Sartre did a good job to see that choices are neither
                      rational or irrational. Each choice that we make , for me, comes to
                      the decision on if life is worth living or it isn't. We can see say
                      that neither one can ever be made without a subjective faith. Who's
                      to say that life is important or isn't. That's why Sartre says that
                      life is absurd, and therefore, so is death. A consequentialist
                      viewpoint is only taking in some types of variables, but these
                      variables are based on what WE THINK is beneficial. Then those
                      things are traced to other events that we would see are beneficial,
                      ad infinitum to we get to the same idea, is life worth living
                      (should I continue breathing or not). Therefore, consequentialism
                      becomes personal decision, which is what Sartre tried to get at
                      anyway. If you think that utilitarian ideas are superior over other
                      ways of morality, isn't that a personal decision, I think so, which
                      I just showed.

                      Brian
                      --- In existlist@y..., "james tan" <tyjfk@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > "the question still remains why would one want to adopt such a
                      morality"
                      >
                      >
                      > ur answer emphasise on the WHY but my emphasis was on the SUCH or
                      why this
                      > particular morality. i know tt morality theory is to help making
                      moral
                      > decision. pretty obvious, isnt it?
                      >
                      > james.
                      >
                      >
                      > From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@m...>
                      > Reply-To: WisdomForum@y...
                      > To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@y...>
                      > Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                      > Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:06:51 -0700
                      >
                      > James said:
                      > >>the
                      > question still remains why would one want to adopt such a
                      morality.<<
                      >
                      > Obviously, to make moral decisions.
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: james tan
                      > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:48 AM
                      > To: WisdomForum@y...
                      > Subject: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                      >
                      >
                      > chris said:
                      > "if he had employed a consequentialist morality, the problem may
                      have been
                      > resolvable through a rational method of decision."
                      >
                      > but this begs the question. it is not so much tt sartre did not
                      think of the
                      > consequences as in what kind of consequences one wants, which
                      bring us back
                      > to values. and if there is such a thing as a consequentialist
                      morality, the
                      > question still remains why would one want to adopt such a morality.
                      >
                      > james.
                      >
                      > From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@m...>
                      > Reply-To: WisdomForum@y...
                      > To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@y...>
                      > Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Re: Choosing and Reason
                      > Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:48:24 -0700
                      >
                      > It is also noteworthy that Sartre considers the problem from
                      essentially
                      > only a deontological point of view. He compares Christian with
                      Kantian
                      > values and concludes that they do not resolve the conflict and that
                      > therefore there is no rational way to resolve the conflict.
                      However, if he
                      > had employed a consequentialist morality, the problem may have been
                      > resolvable through a rational method of decision. The utilitarian
                      would
                      > have chosen that course of action which maximizes the greatest
                      amount of
                      > happiness for the most number of people. If the choice is between
                      making
                      > only one person (the mother) happy as opposed to making many
                      people (say the
                      > village that one might liberate as a member of the French Army in
                      exile)
                      > happy, the choice would be clear and that would be a rational way
                      of
                      > deciding what to do. And, even approaching the issue from a
                      > non-consequentialist point of view that focuses on say "what we
                      care about",
                      > the problem can enriched by considering some of the additional
                      factors that
                      > SWM points out. Can the mother get along without the son, or
                      would she die
                      > if he went off to fight? Do the students peers want him to join
                      them, and
                      > thereby make a unit of true comrades? Perhaps here Sartre has
                      really
                      > exaggerated the importance of making an unprincipled or radical
                      choice.
                      > There appears to be substantial reason to think that Sartre has
                      given up on
                      > reason far too soon.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
                      http://mobile.msn.com
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.