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RE: [existlist] Re: I dont see it happen (long)

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  • eduard
    elbookdoc,
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 5, 2002
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      elbookdoc,

      << In essence the idea of the fly does not matter,
      but the fly, for me, symbolizes quantum mechanics.
      It is a random behavior which sets off a stream of
      behaviors, which, by chance can be said to
      manifest into something else >>

      If the fly is representative of quantum mechanics,
      then it itself is a probability function. It can
      be any number of possibilities, from a live fly to
      a dead fly, to the fly that is caught in a spiders
      web. The man who is changing oil, collapses the
      function such as to create the single fly that
      distracts his attention. The point made by John
      Gibbon is that this single fly is that known in
      our universe, along with all the subsequent events
      that cascade from that encounter in the driveway.
      The other states of this fly carry on in other
      universes. Perhaps in the universe in which the
      fly is caught in a spider's web, the oil changer
      is not distracted, and his car does not stop, such
      that he runs down the old lady and thus saves the
      father who goes on to write a text book on
      Existentialism.

      eduard
    • elbookdoc
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 6, 2002
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        << The point made by John
        > Gibbon is that this single fly is that known in
        > our universe, along with all the subsequent events
        > that cascade from that encounter in the driveway.

        I don't mean to be cocky, but I somehow knew what I was going
        to say as soon as you responded and that it would affect exactly
        this:

        The fellow who had been drinking was a heavy, habitual drinker.
        He was prone to delirium. The fly was not real.

        Now you'll tell me it doesn't make a difference.

        I have a little trouble with the idea that all possible events *exist*,
        and that there are multiple universi (?) necessarily. Isn't that
        POTENTIAL that exists, rather than necessarily assuming other
        universes do? A pretty grand assumption -- especially for one
        like yourself (missouri be damned). I would be all with you if you
        were discussing perspective (each individual perspective is a
        universe), but to 'collapse' things: If the universe is not observed
        (or imagined), does it make a sound?

        Your perspective on Gibbon makes him sound like a duck.

        P. Littlebrain
        ----------------------------------------------------
      • eduard
        elbookdoc, Yes, I have the
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 6, 2002
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          elbookdoc,

          << I have a little trouble with the idea that all
          possible events *exist*, and that there are
          multiple universi (?) necessarily. >>

          Yes, I have the same problem with the idea that
          there are multiple universes. It seems much to
          complex. But then it seems to provide an answer to
          the difficulty of dealing with the superposition
          of states. I suspect, however, that it has it has
          a certain attraction because it matches the
          mathematics. Actually, this whole thing is well
          beyond me and I guess I shall have to read some
          more books.

          I am now into a book, "God and the New Physics" by
          Paul Davies. What struck me whilst reading it
          last night, was the idea that the within the
          present universe, there is an inherent tendency
          for localized order out of the surrounding chaos.
          I don't have a specific quote, as this is more in
          the way of an impression I obtain in the reading.
          Although the universe, in general, tends towards
          overall chaos [high entropy], the formation of
          stars, galaxies, and life itself is towards order
          [low entropy]. I recall reading about the
          philosophical/religious outlook of the ancient
          Sumerians. In that they initiated the dualist
          idea of good and evil which I would put in terms
          of order and chaos respectively. The Egyptians
          had the same sort of outlook, with the pharaoh
          being the protector of society against chaos.
          From there one could develop a personal philosophy
          based upon our purpose as being to maintain and
          propagate order. This seems more pleasing than a
          simple purpose of propagating ourselves, as
          humans, through reproduction and such. Perhaps
          one could also look at it from an Existentialist
          viewpoint in that our choices produce ever
          increasing order. It fits as well with the idea
          that our choices are made for everyone.

          << Your perspective on Gibbon makes him sound like
          a duck.>>

          I don't understand this last comment.

          eduard
        • elbookdoc
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 6, 2002
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            << Your perspective on Gibbon makes him sound like
            > a duck.>>
            >
            > I don't understand this last comment.>>

            Ducks go Quack.

            Mr. Mallard
            --------------------------
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