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Re: On being, nothingness, and the existence of Gillians...

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  • thebookdoc@aol.com
    Forgive me, but I am paraphrasing previous responses and not giving credit. I am assuming the idea is the important part, rather than who said it. You know who
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 10, 2001
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      Forgive me, but I am paraphrasing previous responses and not giving credit. I
      am assuming the idea is the important part, rather than who said it. You know
      who you are.

      << to give a scientific explanation does not diminish the idea that humans
      reach out for the divine ... i dont think that our worship of gods is born
      out of fear ... >>

      I think reaching out for explanation leads to creating a god because of all
      the things that are not understood. If you have no explanation and need one,
      you create it...like creating a god, like 'finding' a result in science. On
      the ends of that are potentially: the non-curious have no god (not looking
      beyond anything nor caring about 'explanation'), or the more educated have no
      god (deceiving themselves that they know more than is possible). There are
      obviously other variations. The better answer would seem to be..."Gee, I wish
      I could believe in this." But there is never enough to go on. Accepting the
      latter is where one gets to remove the impetus to seek 'the divine.' I think
      it is not natural to seek the divine...it is an accident, misunderstanding,
      or movement of the flock..."Gee, they must be giving away something good in
      this line, it's longer!"

      <<There is simply too much pretentious scientific explanation of what is
      basically expressive of our nature as humans. >>

      True. And too many answers. The only real answer is that it is impossible to
      know. Yet none of us sits calmly silent. And many of us have answers. I hope
      mine are consistently emptier than most.

      I don't know who Gillian Anderson is either...and I don't feel that I'm
      missing much. However, I won't be caught denying that she exists...as I have
      no idea.

      <<... and i think i can trap a few gulls that have been scavenging around the
      town dump ...>>

      I guess this is why I am content to sit in my basement. I don't need gulls or
      gods or Gillians, as it won't change what is at arm's length. And that is all
      I know that can affect and enthrall me. And, funny, I find myself not sad or
      seeking, yet interested, and somehow, oddly, happy -- though there would seem
      to be no reason to be.

      Richard

      PS -- I'd be interested in what people are reading in the group, and where,
      if anywhere, one would look for ideas that go beyond deconstruction (please,
      not the errant academic dialogues, but the idea of...which is not owned in
      order to make it apparent). Or are we left to discover new philosophy on our
      own in chatty newsgroups? Perhaps this is god.

      Thanks.
    • Juan Menendez
      ... Gentlemen: I don t need a God or gods either. That is precisely my point. One way or another, people do create their gods: for some, it is money; for
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 10, 2001
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        --- thebookdoc@... wrote:
        > Forgive me, but I am paraphrasing previous responses
        > and not giving credit. I
        > am assuming the idea is the important part, rather
        > than who said it. You know
        > who you are.
        >
        > << to give a scientific explanation does not
        > diminish the idea that humans
        > reach out for the divine ... i dont think that our
        > worship of gods is born
        > out of fear ... >>
        >
        > I think reaching out for explanation leads to
        > creating a god because of all
        > the things that are not understood. If you have no
        > explanation and need one,
        > you create it...like creating a god, like 'finding'
        > a result in science. On
        > the ends of that are potentially: the non-curious
        > have no god (not looking
        > beyond anything nor caring about 'explanation'), or
        > the more educated have no
        > god (deceiving themselves that they know more than
        > is possible). There are
        > obviously other variations. The better answer would
        > seem to be..."Gee, I wish
        > I could believe in this." But there is never enough
        > to go on. Accepting the
        > latter is where one gets to remove the impetus to
        > seek 'the divine.' I think
        > it is not natural to seek the divine...it is an
        > accident, misunderstanding,
        > or movement of the flock..."Gee, they must be giving
        > away something good in
        > this line, it's longer!"
        >
        > <<There is simply too much pretentious scientific
        > explanation of what is
        > basically expressive of our nature as humans. >>
        >
        > True. And too many answers. The only real answer is
        > that it is impossible to
        > know. Yet none of us sits calmly silent. And many of
        > us have answers. I hope
        > mine are consistently emptier than most.
        >
        > I don't know who Gillian Anderson is either...and I
        > don't feel that I'm
        > missing much. However, I won't be caught denying
        > that she exists...as I have
        > no idea.
        >
        > <<... and i think i can trap a few gulls that have
        > been scavenging around the
        > town dump ...>>
        >
        > I guess this is why I am content to sit in my
        > basement. I don't need gulls or
        > gods or Gillians, as it won't change what is at
        > arm's length. And that is all
        > I know that can affect and enthrall me. And, funny,
        > I find myself not sad or
        > seeking, yet interested, and somehow, oddly, happy
        > -- though there would seem
        > to be no reason to be.
        >
        > Richard
        >
        > PS -- I'd be interested in what people are reading
        > in the group, and where,
        > if anywhere, one would look for ideas that go beyond
        > deconstruction (please,
        > not the errant academic dialogues, but the idea
        > of...which is not owned in
        > order to make it apparent). Or are we left to
        > discover new philosophy on our
        > own in chatty newsgroups? Perhaps this is god.
        >
        > Thanks.
        Gentlemen:

        I don't need a God or gods either. That is precisely
        my point. One way or another, people do create their
        gods: for some, it is money; for others, power; still
        others seek fame--all of these are the worship of
        abstractions. There needs no scientist come from the
        laboratory to tell us this.

        I am appalled to discover the lack of cultural
        awareness in cyberspace. Is there a corner of this
        universe, whether actual or virtual, where "The
        X-Files" television program is not known? I usually
        turn the sound off and just gaze in silent adoration
        at "Agent Scully." If there were a God, it might well
        resemble her.

        The Church as an institution is an irrelevant
        side-bar: it is concerned with power in this world and
        has very little to do with the spiritual. Science is
        all very well and good when it leads to the discovery
        of anti-biotics, it is less good when it results in
        the creation of nuclear weapons and the release of
        carcinogens into the atmosphere. For me, Nietzsche was
        right--"God is dead." And yet, as Nietzsche predicted,
        He continues to haunt the Western imagination. Let us
        dispense with the fairy tales, including the
        scientific fairy tale. Let us embrace our fates as not
        the kings of creation nor even the work of a king of
        creation, but merely another species that has come to
        be and will disappear in time, a laughable monkey
        race, seeking to fathom the mysteries of the universe
        and of time and of what lies beyond death, yet unable
        to escape either of those three. We are indeed
        comical...like Becket's two sad tramps waiting under
        that wilted tree for God ("Godot") to show up and for
        their lives to begin.

        Wait no more. This is all there is folks. Laugh. Shake
        your fist at God or the universe. Make art. Make love.
        Be free and fully human. For as Nietzsche remarked,
        "if there were gods, how could I not be one?"


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      • Edward Alf
        Richard and Folks, as you could guess, i would disagree with the contention that, it is not natural to seek the divine ... on the contrary, i think it is the
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 12, 2001
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          Richard and Folks,

          as you could guess, i would disagree with the contention that, "it is not
          natural to seek the divine" ... on the contrary, i think it is the most
          natural part of human endevour ... how else would one explain the occurrence
          of religion in every culture ... im making the general qualification of
          "every" since i dont know of a culture which does not have a religion ...
          granted there have been atheist regimes, but these have passed and in any
          case have existed in combination with religious perspective ... i would
          hardly think of religion as being an "accident", "misunderstanding, or ,
          "movement of the flock" ...

          yes i can understand contentment sitting in your basement ... each has their
          own path in life ... for me it is a constant search ... im 56 and still have
          a universe to explore ...

          i too would like to hear from others as to the results of their own journey
          ... my reading, at this time, is on neurology, light, and physics ...

          regards

          eduard
        • Edward Alf
          hi Juan et al, i would suggest that we all need gods ... and certainly other than money, power and fame ... these latter things are fleeting ... money, power
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 12, 2001
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            hi Juan et al,

            i would suggest that we all need gods ... and certainly other than money,
            power and fame ... these latter things are fleeting ...

            money, power and fame are not abstract, but rather very concrete objects of
            desire ... it is the abstract that we have difficulty with ... things like
            "salvation" and "kingdom of heaven" ... they may have been understood in
            times gone past, but there is no meaning applicable to today's world ...
            our mainline religions have not kept up with change ... the scientist is not
            the culprit in all this ... he/she is only trying to reveal the process of
            thinking not what is thought ....

            you seem to have a very dark view of the world ... there is more to life
            then just sitting around and having a good time ... there is wonderment in
            the universe ... things that make sense and have a logic ... and beauty ...
            take a moment and look up Phyllotaxis on the internet ...

            at this time i dont know the words to adequately express the concept of god
            or even of the desire for god, but i know it exists and can be rewarding
            ....

            regards

            eduard

            > Gentlemen:
            >
            > I don't need a God or gods either. That is precisely
            > my point. One way or another, people do create their
            > gods: for some, it is money; for others, power; still
            > others seek fame--all of these are the worship of
            > abstractions. There needs no scientist come from the
            > laboratory to tell us this.
            >
            > I am appalled to discover the lack of cultural
            > awareness in cyberspace. Is there a corner of this
            > universe, whether actual or virtual, where "The
            > X-Files" television program is not known? I usually
            > turn the sound off and just gaze in silent adoration
            > at "Agent Scully." If there were a God, it might well
            > resemble her.
            >
            > The Church as an institution is an irrelevant
            > side-bar: it is concerned with power in this world and
            > has very little to do with the spiritual. Science is
            > all very well and good when it leads to the discovery
            > of anti-biotics, it is less good when it results in
            > the creation of nuclear weapons and the release of
            > carcinogens into the atmosphere. For me, Nietzsche was
            > right--"God is dead." And yet, as Nietzsche predicted,
            > He continues to haunt the Western imagination. Let us
            > dispense with the fairy tales, including the
            > scientific fairy tale. Let us embrace our fates as not
            > the kings of creation nor even the work of a king of
            > creation, but merely another species that has come to
            > be and will disappear in time, a laughable monkey
            > race, seeking to fathom the mysteries of the universe
            > and of time and of what lies beyond death, yet unable
            > to escape either of those three. We are indeed
            > comical...like Becket's two sad tramps waiting under
            > that wilted tree for God ("Godot") to show up and for
            > their lives to begin.
            >
            > Wait no more. This is all there is folks. Laugh. Shake
            > your fist at God or the universe. Make art. Make love.
            > Be free and fully human. For as Nietzsche remarked,
            > "if there were gods, how could I not be one?"
            >
            >
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